Please test my Simple Water Calculator

[strange-steve]

Hi, as a means of staving off boredom I've been learning a little HTML and JavaScript and I put together a simple little online water calculator. This puts together the various formulae that I've been using for a while in an Excel sheet I made for my own brews and I'd thought some of you may like it. It's been designed to be as simple as possible, just put in your current and target values for alkalinity, sulphate, and chloride plus some details of your recipe and all the additions will be automatically calculated for you. I'd love some feedback so if you'd like to give it a test or just play around with it then feel free.

You can find it here: Water Treatment

 

[cushyno]

Just taken a quick look, will do more later. First observations:

• Neat layout
• Colour could do with units as a guide (SRM/L/EBC)
• It advises me to use negative amounts of gypsum. May be best to display a message advising that my adjustments can't be achieved without using additional acids, or suchlike.

Nice one .

Said as an ex-programmer with experience of web development, you'll find mastering the HTML and JavaScript only half the challenge. Usability is massively important, getting feedback from you target audience is key. You won't be able to please all of your audience, but if you get over 90% consider that you've done a good job.

Find ways for users to leave feedback while also setting their expectations, otherwise you'll receive requests to change things on a whim just for them.

I appreciate what you've done here, it'll help loads of people out. I have my own spreadsheet that only calculates adjustments based on CRS because that's what I have lots of. Catering for many permutations of adjustment is a big ask, it looks like you've aimed high.

 

[strange-steve]

Said as an ex-programmer with experience of web development

I especially appreciate your feedback then thumb

I thought I'd removed the negative values, but that's a simple fix anyway. I also might add a function to allow blending of RO water to reduce sulphate/chloride.

 

[Sadfield]

Nice. Plugged a recipe into it and it appears to work for me, although I can't compare exactly as I also use Magnesium Sulphate and Sodium Chloride in my additions and treat one lot of water for both mash and sparge. All looks in the right ball park though when added together. Tested using CRS setting.

It may be an idea to add the conversions for HCO3 and CO3 from CaCO3 so that shares some commonality with Beersmith, water reports and Salifert Kits, etc.

 

[strange-steve]

• Colour could do with units as a guide (SRM/L/EBC)
• It advises me to use negative amounts of gypsum. May be best to display a message advising that my adjustments can't be achieved without using additional acids, or suchlike

These suggestions have been implemented, thanks.

It may be an idea to add the conversions for HCO3 and CO3 from CaCO3 so that shares some commonality with Beersmith, water reports and Salifert Kits, etc.

That's a good idea thumb

 

[MmmBeer]

Looks good Steve, rather more comprehensive than my spreadsheet.

I have never used a Calcium test kit and can't find a value on supplier's water quality report. Leaving this at the default value of 80ppm, the calculator gave a negative value for residual alkalinity.

 

[strange-steve]

the calculator gave a negative value for residual alkalinity

That's perfectly normal, adjusted brewing water will often have a negative residual alkalinity thumb

 

[jceg316]

Finally managed to give this a go. It's a nice calculator, I like its simplicity and that it tells you what to additions are needed for a target profile, not all do this. I use Graham Wheeler's liquor treatment calculator when I need to do water calculations. I'm not great with water chemistry, some of the inputs are different, for e.g. Graham's requires magnesium but this isn't an option on yours, is there a reason for this?

What would be really great, although not sure if this realistic, is to have built in target profiles which can be selected. Could be done by scraping Bru n water data maybe?

 

[strange-steve]

Finally managed to give this a go. It's a nice calculator, I like its simplicity and that it tells you what to additions are needed for a target profile, not all do this. I use Graham Wheeler's liquor treatment calculator when I need to do water calculations. I'm not great with water chemistry, some of the inputs are different, for e.g. Graham's requires magnesium but this isn't an option on yours, is there a reason for this?

What would be really great, although not sure if this realistic, is to have built in target profiles which can be selected. Could be done by scraping Bru n water data maybe?

Thanks for the feedback mate, I appreciate it thumb

I purposefully left out magnesium because I don't think it's really necessary to add, there should be more than enough magnesium from the mash. I had considered adding sodium which may improve flavour in certain styles, but for the sake of simplicity and the fact that probably most people don't add sodium, I decided to leave it out too.

With regards to built-in target profiles, I did think about it but decided against because I don't really think there should be a particular target by style. The idea is that you tell the calculator what profile you want and it works out the additions, rather than the calculator telling you what profile to choose which I think can be counter productive.

 

[strange-steve]

The problem with target profiles is that there is no single perfect profile per style. For example have a look at the difference between the stout profile from Graham Wheeler's and the Black full profile from Brun Water:

Graham's:
Calcium - 180ppm
Sulphate - 85ppm
Chloride - 341ppm
Bicarbonate - 50ppm

Brun Water:
Calcium - 50ppm
Sulphate - 35ppm
Chloride - 45ppm
Bicarbonate - 140ppm

Which of these is "better" is entirely down to your own personal taste.

 

[jceg316]

That makes complete sense, thanks for explaining. Interesting how two calculators appear to be vastly different for similar styles! In my experience I didn't really like Bru n Water, although I did like their long list of water profiles. GW's water calculator is quite simple and following the instructions on there to get from my water profile to a sweet pale ale was the difference between a horrifically astringent IPA and a really good one.

Water chemistry is something I'd like to get my head around, but just when I start to understand what's going on I don't use that knowledge for months and I end up forgetting it by the time I need to make water adjustments again.

 

[BeerisGOD]

Im going to use this for my next brew on sunday.
Steve
Are the figures meant to change after yiuve keyed in roasted and crystal malts? (After pressing calculate)

 

[strange-steve]

Im going to use this for my next brew on sunday.
Steve
Are the figures meant to change after yiuve keyed in roasted and crystal malts? (After pressing calculate)

The only thing that will change is the predicted mash pH, that's the only thing that's affected by the malt inputs.

 

[BeerisGOD]

Right.
My

The problem with target profiles is that there is no single perfect profile per style. For example have a look at the difference between the stout profile from Graham Wheeler's and the Black full profile from Brun Water:

Graham's:
Calcium - 180ppm
Sulphate - 85ppm
Chloride - 341ppm
Bicarbonate - 50ppm

Brun Water:
Calcium - 50ppm
Sulphate - 35ppm
Chloride - 45ppm
Bicarbonate - 140ppm

Which of these is "better" is entirely down to your own personal taste.

Im glad i had another butchers at this as like uv just shown so many have different takes on targets.

 

[BradleyW]

Had a quick butcher's, looks good, simple to navigate. Will use it on my next brew

 

[BeerisGOD]

Well hopefully my figures were good enough.
The hydro sample tasted a bit sour/salty but i think this could be the carafa.
Will let everyone know the result in a month or so (if anyone gives a s#!t)

 

[strange-steve]

Well hopefully my figures were good enough.
The hydro sample tasted a bit sour/salty but i think this could be the carafa.
Will let everyone know the result in a month or so (if anyone gives a s#!t)

What were your starting and target values?

 

[BeerisGOD]

What were your starting and target values?

Ok well i tried going with sadfields black ipa targets on the black ipa thread but the calculator wasnt allowing me to put the lower figures in.
I went with
Alkalinity 136/90
Sulphate 123/200
Chloride 82/100
Calcium 86

I used no more than 5% of carafa and crystal

 

[strange-steve]

Those are very reasonable values, adjustments shouldn't have been too big. 0.1g/l gypsum and 0.25ml/l CRS, that's not going to make anything sour or salty so don't worry

 

[BeerisGOD]

Those are very reasonable values, adjustments shouldn't have been too big. 0.1g/l gypsum and 0.25ml/l CRS, that's not going to make anything sour or salty so don't worry

Thats reassuring.
Yes i went with the 5ml and 4g it calculated for a 14 litre batch.
I think i read too much into the sample. Its prob the most bittered beer ive done (58 IBU) so could be to do with this