Pid control install

[MS1986]

Hi folks,

I have searched all day an struggling to find an answer; I'm considering making a controller for mashing as my ACE kettle looses too much heat on small batches and the 2.5kw heater is too much to just turn on to warm it up a bit.

If I buy:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
How do I install the thermocoupler to my boiler? I'm good with the wiring ect but what's the best way to fit the sensor without causing leaks but having accurate readings?

I can't find a weldless bulkhead fitting that an m6 sensor will bolt into?

I'm probably missing something really obvious but my head hurts trying to find it lol

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Do you know the answer @The-Engineer-That-Brews ?

 

[YeastFace]

Get a PT100 and a thermowell (or a detachable PT100 which is what I use).

Those k probes aren't great.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Thanks for the heads up @Tess Tickle
I'm not a huge fan of the analogue thermocouples supplied with those kits as they don't have a great reputation for reliability (waterproofing is apparently an issue).
I guess you could just bolt it through the side of your boiler - near the bottom; but I think if I were doing it I would want one with a longer probe so that it was sensing more into the grain bed. Perhaps something like this (bit short but it would do):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Waterproof-Type-Thermocouple-Temperature-Controller/dp/B07DP3572J

Ideally I'd go for a 'thermowell' into which you can insert a smooth 6mm 'capsule' thermocouple (like 1/2 inch - weldless thermowell Stainless Steel Immersion 304 of 30mm 50mm 100mm 200mm 300mm 400mm 500mm - Immersion Well thermowell thermopocket for thermocouple (150mm) : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools) but by the time you've got a thermocouple to go in it, you'll be costing more than the price of your PID...


Finally, to get on my usual hobby horse, watch out for that "Fotek" SSR: I've never seen one that wasn't falsely rebadged to claim a higher capacity - so make sure to use it on a decent heatsink (NOT in a sealed up box !!!!) and don't leave it unattended

 

[MS1986]

Thanks for the advice folks.

Finally got it built and works a treat to control my boiler (once I removed the built in thermostat that kept cutting off before reaching boil, was great fun having to empty and disassemble mid brew )

Turned out I had the wrong PID to work with a PT100 too so replaced it, I have a water proof sensor now so it just goes in the boiler clipped to the FB.

All in all a fun project with really good final results so tha ks again

 

[hoppyscotty]

nice..building a control panel for my new setup at the moment. Where did you get all the odds and sods components like the switches? I've got the Main components looking for a few odds and sods parts.

Thanks

 

[MS1986]

Left over from other projects mainly and scrap equipment, you can buy them but they can be expensive for quality bits.

If you get a voltage regulator to control the rolling boil, get the one with the on/off button, if you leave it powered without a load (kettle element) connected it will burn out, so when you switch to use the pid the regulator has to be off.

If your local I have a few odd an sods left over your welcome to have a route through, I'm in Staffordshire

 

[MS1986]

Regulator:

SCR Digital Voltage Regulator... SCR Digital Voltage Regulator 10000W Adjustable Electric Motor Speed Control Dimmer Digital Thermostat Module AC 220V : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

PID:

Temperature Controller Thermostat... Temperature Controller Thermostat with Thermocouple/Temperature Sensor + Max 40A Solid State Relay Kit : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

On-off switch

Taiss/2Pcs 22mm SPST 1 No Two 2 - Positions Maintained Latching Rotary Select Selector Switch 440V 10A (Quality Assurance for 3 Years) XB2-10X/21 Taiss/2Pcs 22mm SPST 1 No Two 2 - Positions Maintained Latching Rotary Select Selector Switch 440V 10A (Quality Assurance for 3 Years) XB2-10X/21 : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

And 3 position version of the switch above to make a changeover switch

boil

 

[hoppyscotty]

Hadn’t through the about a voltage regulator for the boil kettle. I assumed the PID would sort it all out. I have two power supplies for three heating elements in my setup. But only need to run two heating elements at any time so have a switch to divert the power from one of the PID’s to either the HLT or boil kettle elements. The other supply is for the mash tun RIMS. I guess I could put a voltage regulator on line such that it is 100% when switched to the HLT and when on the boil I can regulate?

thanks for the links.

 

[MS1986]

The pid will control temperature, but boil vigor is not relative to temperature so setting the temp via pid will not control how hard it boils, the regulator controls the % of power supplied to the element, so 100% to bring it up to a boil then throttle back to control how hard the boil is, for example 55% on my boiler gives a constant, gentle simmer/rolling boil. This is impossible to achieve with the pid.

You could use a changeover switch to flip between the pid and regulator so you have control of both sets of elements, the pid will work for everything apart from the boil, for the price of a pid you could always add a 2nd one an have individual control of each element.

I also added a 12v transformer to run a recirculation pump and a fan for inside the control box to keep it all cool, the regulator can run quite hot.

 

[hoppyscotty]

So the voltage regulator is instead of a PID? Or is it in line after the PID so you regulate the voltage after the PID?

sorry for the novice questions!

 

[MS1986]

No the are side by side the output to the element is provided by either the pid or the regulator depending if your mashing or boiling

 

[hoppyscotty]

OK. I guess I could use the switch to direct supply power to either HLT PID or boil Kettle voltage regulator instead of switching the output of the PID.

An alternative is to use the PID to bring the kettle to about 98 degrees then switch into the PID manual mode for the actual boil...would this work? Not sure how the manual mode works.

 

[user 6402]

I too am thinking about building a PID control box. A couple of queries I hope you lads can help me with.
Why are K type probes/sensors not liked by some?
I want to include a small 5vdc fan through an ac/dc converter. The fan is rated @ 0.24A which if I'm correct is 240mA. Do I use a converter rated @ 200mA or 600mA?
Sorry but I don't know how to attach a link on this forum, but if you copy and paste the following you should see a Shell K type Socket & Plug connector set on Ebay:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19538233...OvktVEJhdkKfuzOaBjO7n-PEIpKqLyuAaAgrIEALw_wcBAs they are only 2 wire connections, could they be used for a 2 wire PT100 probe?
Cheers all

 

[user 6402]

I too am thinking about building a PID control box. A couple of queries I hope you lads can help me with.
Why are K type probes/sensors not liked by some?
I want to include a small 5vdc fan through an ac/dc converter. The fan is rated @ 0.24A which if I'm correct is 240mA. Do I use a converter rated @ 200mA or 600mA?
Sorry but I don't know how to attach a link on this forum, but if you copy and paste the following you should see a Shell K type Socket & Plug connector set on Ebay:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19538233...OvktVEJhdkKfuzOaBjO7n-PEIpKqLyuAaAgrIEALw_wcBAs they are only 2 wire connections, could they be used for a 2 wire PT100 probe?
Cheers all

After posting my message above, the link was automatically attached.

 

[foxy]

Check out Magical pancake’s videos. He was a member on here when he was living in the UK he has made a few videos of the Ace brewery including installing a pid controller.