Parti gyle hopping advice needed please!

[Monkhouse]

Hi, my brother in law is doing this massive stout and as I’m helping him with the brewday we had the idea of using the second runnings for a second beer parti gyle style.
Attached is the recipe, could anyone advise on hop additions? Ideally as cheap as possible! Also would anyone have any idea of the possible strength of this beer and what sort of brew volume I should aim for?
Really appreciate any help in this one guys!

 

[Slid]

Hi, my brother in law is doing this massive stout and as I’m helping him with the brewday we had the idea of using the second runnings for a second beer parti gyle style.
Attached is the recipe, could anyone advise on hop additions? Ideally as cheap as possible! Also would anyone have any idea of the possible strength of this beer and what sort of brew volume I should aim for?
Really appreciate any help in this one guys!

That truly is an enormous grain bill, around 12kg. No idea of the final strength, which may be just the alcohol tolerance of the yeast.
As for hopping the main beer, you could use a high alpha bittering hop as the first addition - it is not going to be a hop forward beer.
The recipe says it is a 19L brew, but I would be tempted to go for more - say 23-25L for the first and the second runnings beer.

The second runnings will be around half the strength of the first, but much depends on the efficiency of the first runnings mash and you sparge this after mashing to get up to the desired volume. I would use same hops and yeast as the main beer, as it will also be a stout, but halve the quantities.

Good luck with this one!

 

[Clarence]

Hi, my brother in law is doing this massive stout and as I’m helping him with the brewday we had the idea of using the second runnings for a second beer parti gyle style.
Attached is the recipe, could anyone advise on hop additions? Ideally as cheap as possible! Also would anyone have any idea of the possible strength of this beer and what sort of brew volume I should aim for?
Really appreciate any help in this one guys!

That's a mother of a mash. WIth my usual mash efficiency, I'd expect to get around 1.250, but It's going to be hard to sparge that much malt and get that efficiency. Even so there isn't much leeway. A slow sparge and allow for a longer and vigorous boil would be my approach.
And that's not even considering hopping the second runnings. Sorry.

 

[The Baron]

Your efficiency is going to take a hit with that first mash which should give you a reasonable second partigyle.
Make sure your yeast is up to it too

 

[Monkhouse]

Haha I’m letting my brother in law worry about the main beer all I need to worry about is what hop and what quantities on hop to do in the second runnings. I’m thinking just bittering hops so just a 60 min addition. Any ideas of desired IBU on second runnings would be great

 

[Monkhouse]

So if I did 60g of willamette @ 60 min would this be enough? I’m not bothered about adding any later hops

 

[Monkhouse]

I don’t know of any way of working out the IBUs on a Parti gyle, unless I’m missing something?

 

[Slid]

I don’t know of any way of working out the IBUs on a Parti gyle, unless I’m missing something?

With the second running, you sparge until you get the pre-boil volume you want. At that point, take an Hydrometer reading and then put into Brewing Software, the amount of Malts (in proportion to the grain bill) that get you that FG. You may need to estimate boil off rates on your software at this stage. Then you put in the weight of Williamette that gives you your desired IBU, say 40 IBU's, for example.

 

[Monkhouse]

You mean put into software the amount of malts that get you the OG?

 

[Slid]

You mean put into software the amount of malts that get you the OG?

Yes, indeed!

 

[Monkhouse]

I’ve assumed a gravity of around 1.060 and ordered 50g of nugget (12.8AA) which when put into Brewfather gives me an IBU of 60.

 

[An Ankoù]

@Slid 's perfectly right, but if, like me, you have a healthy loathing of brewing software and prefer to ward off senility with a bit of arithmetic, you can use this formula:
grams of hops= (brew length x required IBUs) / (utilisation factor x alpha acid content of hops)
so if you're brewing 20 litres, your willamette has 6% alpha acid, you want 40 IBUs and the gravity of your wort is somewhere between 1035 and 1055 -ish, then the utilisation will be around 2.5.
So the equation becomes
grams of hops= (20 x40) / (2.5 x 6)g
or 53 grams

 

[An Ankoù]

I’ve assumed a gravity of around 1.060 and ordered 50g of nugget (12.8AA) which when put into Brewfather gives me an IBU of 60.

I fear that if you're getting a full kettle of wort at 1060 then your brother-in-law's batch is going to be noticeably diminished. But as you said earlier, that's his problem. On the other hand, he could have a couple of sachjets (cans) of malt extract ready just to make up any shortfall. It won't make any difference to the flavour in that mother-lover-of-a-broth.

 

[Monkhouse]

I fear that if you're getting a full kettle of wort at 1060 then your brother-in-law's batch is going to be noticeably diminished. But as you said earlier, that's his problem. On the other hand, he could have a couple of sachjets (cans) of malt extract ready just to make up any shortfall. It won't make any difference to the flavour in that mother-lover-of-a-broth.

Tbh I’m happy with whatever gravity it ends up being, obviously the priority is the initial mash and whatever the second runnings are is whatever they are. I do think the same though with regards to efficiency of the first runnings probably not being that great. I don’t think I’d want to spend all that money on grain and not do a sparge!

 

[An Ankoù]

Check out The Mad Russian by @strange-steve . On this forum. His stout was just a tad stronger, he used a reiterated mash and had difficulty with bottle carbonation at that strength. I understand that carbonation problems are not uncommon at that strength, mine took over a year!
His experience might give some insights.

 

[Monkhouse]

Check out The Mad Russian by @strange-steve . On this forum. His stout was just a tad stronger, he used a reiterated mash and had difficulty with bottle carbonation at that strength. I understand that carbonation problems are not uncommon at that strength, mine took over a year!
His experience might give some insights.

What’s a reiterated mash? I did an 8.5% imperial that took a couple of months to carb in the bottle and I’ve just bottled a 9.5% imperial but I used a sachet of Safale F2 and it looks like it’s carbonated already after only a week in the bottle

 

[An Ankoù]

What’s a reiterated mash? I did an 8.5% imperial that took a couple of months to carb in the bottle and I’ve just bottled a 9.5% imperial but I used a sachet of Safale F2 and it looks like it’s carbonated already after only a week in the bottle

You make a mash and a second mash and you mash the second mash with the wort from the first mash.

 

[Monkhouse]

Interesting!
I had thought of stirring in a couple of kilos of pale ale malt to my brother in laws mash after he has taken the first runnings and letting it mash for another hour with more liquor before then draining off the second runnings. Do you think there would be any point doing this? I just don’t want to end up with a 3% beer as I bottle everything and it would destroy me mentally if I had to bottle 3% pesh!

 

[An Ankoù]

To be honest, the beer is so rich and flavoursome that I'd be inclined to simply add malt extract if necessary. It's a bit more expensive but saves a lot of time. You're just not going to taste the malt extract in a rich stout. Or even make up the strength with ordinary sugar and make it more drinkable. There'll be plenty of body there already.
But I'd wait and see what you end up with.

 

[Monkhouse]

Cool, In the interest of keeping it cheap I’ll probably be inclined to add some treacle or muscavado sugar. How much would you suggest for a 25l batch?