OXIDATION TEST - Bottling Home Brew Beer!

[BREWERS DROOP]

One flaw in his experiment,he didnt squeeze the air out the second bottle???

 

[peebee]

One flaw in his experiment,he didnt squeeze the air out the second bottle???

Maybe not a flaw? But some of the responses in this thread suggests it is giving the wrong idea.

The "experiment" does not translate to rigid (glass) bottles. Although there has been good suggestions for dealing with oxygen in glass bottles (leave them a few minutes, not too many minutes, loosely capped so "outgassing" purges the airspace of O2 before crimping the cap). This is a tip the ancients amongst us will remember (from when there was no such thing as squeezy PET bottles). I very much doubt shaking a bottle with a purged airspace causes an issue, but not shaking a bottle with an unpurged airspace will have the issue (O2 doesn't need shaking to dissolve in the beer, time will do it).

A bit of common-sense is in order. Or if you know you have no common-sense, believe in your chosen mentor (the one with common-sense).

 

[Cwrw666]

I've always shaken bottles and never noticed an issue.
There again I always fill them to between half and a quarter inch from the top. So not a lot of O2 in there really.

 

[GhostShip]

I've never shaken my bottles as I batch prime before bottling, but I have had a few instances of 'home brew twang'. Following a tip I saw on here from @terrym, for the first time I have squeezed the air out of the bottles on the brew I'm conditioning at the moment (St Peter's Cream Stout) when capping. I'm amazed at how quickly the PET bottles recovered their true shape and it will be interesting to see if removing as much oxygen as I can from each bottle makes a difference to the finished beer. I'll need to try it on a lighter kit (I'll probably do the AIPA again next) as I think the darker beers tend to be a bit more forgiving when it comes to the twang.

Really interesting video.

 

[dwhite60]

When I bought my first kit in 1990 the shop owner told me to add sugar to the bottle, fill, cap, and after a week give each bottle a quick twist.

Never heard of shaking them.

I used to batch prime but racking into a bottling bucket seemed like another chance to get oxygen in the beer and the second bucket was one more thing to have to clean and sanitize. I use sugar cubes to prime now. Pre-measured and very easy.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[peebee]

I think the "shake" bit comes from the belief that undissolved sugar will create a layer of very high gravity liquid at the bottom of the bottles. Which the yeast sinks in to and is killed.

Home-brewing had its list of fantasies to lean on in the 60s or 70s like it does now. And us humans like our habits (even if they are complete boll...).

 

[F00b4r]

I think the "shake" bit comes from the belief that undissolved sugar will create a layer of very high gravity liquid at the bottom of the bottles. Which the yeast sinks in to and is killed.

Home-brewing had its list of fantasies to lean on in the 60s or 70s like it does now. And us humans like our habits (even if they are complete boll...).

This layer is definitely possible. I have had first hand experience of it once when batch priming without stirring, luckily the first bottle I tried alerted me as it was like a super sweet shandy so I quickly chilled all the rest down. A small proportion of bottles appeared to have the vast majority of the priming sugar solution in.

 

[Arrakus]

I lost 2 batches this year due to shaking, all of it oxidised. Straight down the drain. Heartbreaking. Never again.

 

[BeerCat]

If it males you feel any better I chucked over a dozen crates away.

 

[foxy]

Also didn't realise people did this. One notable point from the video is that he describes the shaken beer as drinkable. Often the response to subject of oxidation is "I've always done (insert method) and never had an issue". It goes to show what damage to a brew can go unnoticed when there's nothing to compare against.

Possible that the reference to drinkable comes from the oxidation, when I cask a beer first beers are nice and fresh as it ages the beer takes on a different flavour due to the oxidation. I prefer this to the fresh beer, I don't do this with a 20 litre cask just the 10 litre casks.

I did think when I saw it why didn't he do a non shaken one with air in to compare, its possible that without shaking the yeast could use the oxygen before its had as much effect.

Once the yeast goes into the anaerobic stage it doesn't need oxygen, just the sugar, thats why once the fermentation has started it would be bad practice to stir or add oxygen to the wort. When bottling I fill the bottle up to the top then cap, as oxygen is 21% of air then I am pretty safe in thinking the amount of oxygen is low.

 

[Argentum]

Oxygen absorbing crown caps must be wetted post crimping to activate them, but a mild tilt does that. Shaking is insane. Added sugar will fully dissolve without any shaking.

Wetting O2 absorbing crown caps pre applying them (as in sanitizing or washing them) kills their ability to absorb O2.

 

[chrisbjones202]

Interesting test, I normally tip the bottles but coincidentally bottled a Belgian golden last night and didn't without thinking about it.

I might try it myself purging a bottle and shaking another next time to see, as others have said with glass you can't squeeze the air out and while some co2 is given off before capping I'm not convinced it sits below the oxygen like water under oil pushing the oxygen out unless it's frothing.

Again with batch priming (I normally batch prime my Weizen as I transfer to bottling bucket for ease) I'm not convinced it's evenly distributed and therefore more accurate than adding sugar to the bottles though unless you give it a good mix adding some oxygen in the process. Best do what your happy doing.

 

[foxy]

Oxygen absorbing crown caps must be wetted post crimping to activate them, but a mild tilt does that. Shaking is insane. Added sugar will fully dissolve without any shaking.

Wetting O2 absorbing crown caps pre applying them (as in sanitizing or washing them) kills their ability to absorb O2.

Not quite true about sanitising the caps, they can be sanitised prior to putting the cap on the bottle. according to the manufacturer it takes days for them to activate.
Around the 2 minute mark on this podcast
https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/6/b/a6...73330713&hwt=1307b2e72eee34461fcbf264f19cc442
I have used them and didn't notice any difference.

 

[Argentum]

Not quite true about sanitising the caps, they can be sanitised prior to putting the cap on the bottle. according to the manufacturer it takes days for them to activate.
Around the 2 minute mark on this podcast
https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/6/b/a6...73330713&hwt=1307b2e72eee34461fcbf264f19cc442
I have used them and didn't notice any difference.

That is great news, and certainly corrects my prior presumption.

 

[foxy]

That is great news, and certainly corrects my prior presumption.

Doesn't mean to say they work Sierra Nevada tried them for a while, Ken Grossman says they are still searching for the Holy Grail of bottle capping.

 

[GerritT]

great post. It does also raise the issue of posting beers? they are going to get shaken in transport, so drink them after the yeast has settled? best to age beers then post rather that send a young beer via post and age it at the destination.

Sugar cubes. 2, 3 or 6 grams. Works like a charm.