Original Gravity doesn't measure up

[kage72]

Hi Everyone,

I need some advice on extraction efficiency and OG.

I am an all-grain brewer, having started with a pic-nic coller w/PVC manifold mash tun and graduated to a Polar Wear Pot with a false bottom. No matter what my methods or equipment, I can never seem to reach the OG numbers on recipes. I was thinking that my pic nic cooler setup was inefficient, but it gave me the same numbers I am now getting from my kettle with false bottom.

Here are a few things I have tried, none seeming to make much difference:
- Using a plate on top of the grains and very slowly (1QT every 10 minutes) pouring water onto the plate.
- Flooding the grains with 1 inch of water and maintaining that space as some brewers advocate, to keep from chanelling.
- Varying the volume of water in my mash. This changes the ratio between wort from the mash and wort from sparing. What is the ideal mixture?

The only thing I haven't tried is a fancy sparge sprinkling system, but my brew mentors tell me that they are worthless gadgetry. True or False.

Am I misreading my hydrometer (I do wait for it to fall to room temp.)

Are the OGs in recipes unreasonable given homebrewing efficiency?

I seem to remember taking the lbs of grain, dividing by 2 and multiplying by 10 to get the OG, is this right? This seems to agree with the recipe numbers.

And while I'm at it, what is the ideal volume of wort that comes from the mash water, before you even start sparging?
I have seen folks who will have their kettle half full of wort from draining the mash tun, even before they start sparing.

My brewing mentor - a very "relax and have a homebrew guy" - says, just add more grains. $1 more grains per brew is cheaper and quicker than an extra pot with a sparge system. But, I'm a geek and I just can't settle for inefficiency.

Help me out, brewing brttheren.

Numbers from my latest brew: 8 lbs Pale Malt, .5 lbs Crystol 10 LOV, 5 gallons, OG = .1034 - .1036. Recipe says should be .1045.

Kage

 

[MEB]

OG is a bit hard to reach if your grain isn't crushed well. I wouldn't think it's because of the sparge device you are using but it is possibly down to your sparging technique. Do you sparge slowly? I sparge as slow as possible. Like for 1-2 hrs. Also the temp of your sparge liquor is reasonably important too.

As for your recipe-Beersmith works it out at 1052 at 75% efficiency. But that's WAY too much crystal. :shock:
I don't understand the 'varying the volume of water in your mash' statement? But that could well be me being half cut. You want a ration of 2-3L to 1KG for mashing. ie 2-3L of water per kilo of grain. I use 2.2L per kilo of grain.

Quote k72 "The only thing I haven't tried is a fancy sparge sprinkling system, but my brew mentors tell me that they are worthless gadgetry. True or False"- They certainly aren't worthless gadgetry. They can be basic and simple but worthless they are not.

The OG's in recipe's aren't unreasonable, i achieve high eighties low nineties with well crushed malts.

I don't drain my MT before sparging. I don't see why you would want to. It will cool the grain bed down too much. You want to sparge(from the latin 'spargo-meaning to rinse) not flush. It may be different batch sparging but i don't batch sparge. I allow the liquor level to drain down to JUST above the grain bed and then i start sparging.

Biggest advice i can give you at this point is dump that recipe. Have a nose at the recipe section here and use one that takes your fancy. All the recipe's there are tried and used by the brewers here. So any questions just ask.

Hope some of that has helped :hmm:

 

[kage72]

thanks for your well-thought-out reply.

I use sparge water at 175 (mash out) and I have tried many different rates from very slow (2 hours) to fairly rapid (30 minutes). I do a conversion test to assure that conversion is complete before sparging.

When you say that you wait until there is one inch of water left ontop of your grains before you start sparging - That's what I was talking about. How much wort have you collected at that time? It should be roughly equal to the water you use to mash (minus some absorbed water), which I think is WAY less than what I have. For some reason, I consider the water that has sat in my grains for 1 hour and then drained to be of different character than the water that just circulates from top to bottom during sparge. ..and that is why I am interested in the percentage of wort that comes from each. Using you numbers, I can answer my own question (although I will need to convert to outdated units of measure - quarts, galons).

I buy my grains pre-milled, I used to have a mill, but it was made of cheap pressboard and quickly deteriatedd in my shed in the New Orleans humidity. Is it easy to tell if my grains are milled properly or not?

May I ask if you use a fales bottom, or manifold, or think that there is any decernable advantage to either?

It sounds like you just spoon water ontop of your grains (with 1 inch of water on top at all times), correct? Or do you use a sparge system PLUS the 1 inch on top.

Thanks so much for your advice. I hope I am not ovestaying my welcome!

Kage

 

[Vossy1]

I've just run your figures through Beersmith Kage and I agree with you on the figures, MEB you been drinking :lol:

Using 8lb of US 2 row pale = 8/2.2 = 3.63kg
0.5lb 120 crystal = 0.5/2.2 = 0.227kg
5 US gallons = 19.25 ltrs

At 75% efficiency I get a OG of 1.045

Your using 5.8% crystal which is about right for an average bitter/ale.

 

[BrewStew]

BS you been drinking :lol:.

huh?!

what? when where why?

 

[Vossy1]

Sorry BS it was meant to say MEB

I've edited it

 

[BrewStew]

i didn't reply to this post :lol:

have YOU been drinking? :lol:

 

[BrewStew]

Sorry BS it was meant to say MEB

I've edited it

stop editing your posts! :lol:

 

[Vossy1]

:rofl:

I'd love to know where my reply went

anyway Kage72...here it is again

Malt extraction efficiency can be lowered for several reasons.

Your malt could be milled to coarsely making it hard for you to extract the sugars.
There's a picture on the forum somewhere of badly milled malt....I'll try and find it
The malt could be old.
Do you get your malt from a supplier who has a good turnover of stock?

In the tun you might have channelling issues. This is where the sparge water manages to avoid going through the malt.
Instead it finds ways through cracks in the grain bed and so the sugars don't get rinsed from the grain.
It should be easy to spot. Once the mash has no liquor on top of it look for gaps between the grain bed and tun wall

 

[Vossy1]

Have a read through this, MEB had the same problems as you clicky

 

[kage72]

Vossy, thanks!

If you don't mind me asking, what equipment, techniques do you advocate: (false bottom, manifold, screen in the mash tun, sparge system (tank, sprinkler, or just pouring onto a plate, etc))

How long do you sparge?

Sorry for my US units, In my haste to answer my questions, I didn't recognize that I was on a UK forum. ... but homebrewing is a Universal language, right??


Cheers!

 

[Wez]

Kage you're more than welcome on our forum

 

[MEB]

Aha! I read 5lb's of crystal.
And obviously i had been drinking-i was awake.

 

[BrewStew]

infact i think you might be our first member from over the pond if i'm not mistaken? :clap:

 

[Wez]

I use a copper manifold in the bottom of a 66L coolbox tun a spinny sparger and normally spend around 1hr sparging ~12kg grain.

Brew - We have 1 or two US members I think :wha:

 

[BrewStew]

Brew - We have 1 or two US members I think :wha:

we've definitely got 1 now :lol:

 

[kage72]

Thanks for your hospitality!

Any favorite grain mills? Homemade or store-bought sparge system?

Since my local brew store went out-of-business, I ,ust order online, and I can no longer oversee the milling. Also I have had to build up stockpiles of ingredients, because I never know when the brewing-bug will bite.

Side note: I have learned that buying large quantaties of grains in not such a good idea - found some mice muching on my grains in my shed last week. They seem to prefer the Crystal to the Pale. Quite an unwelcome surprise!

My favorite accessory is my "Therminator" radiator wort chiller. It's amazing.

 

[Aleman]

Any favorite grain mills?

Barleycrusher user here

 

[Vossy1]

If you don't mind me asking, what equipment, techniques do you advocate: (false bottom, manifold, screen in the mash tun, sparge system (tank, sprinkler, or just pouring onto a plate, etc))

I use a false bottom in my tun. I've tried spinny sparging (sprinkling) it worked fine, but now I batch sparge.
It might be worth you trying batch sparging. If that doesnt up your efficiency then I suspect your malt is slack/old.

Sorry for my US units, In my haste to answer my questions, I didn't recognize that I was on a UK forum. ... but homebrewing is a Universal language, right??

Yes it is Never feel awkward asking a question, there's always someone around to answer your questions :thumb:

 

[MEB]

But watch my answers. I'm upside down(NZ) and therefore drinking in a different timezone to you guys. Sometimes i'm sober but mostly i try to avoid that. :grin:
I use a coolbox with a copper manifold and a Valentine arm. I fly sparge using a home-made sparge contraption.