Non stabilised red wine?

[mike383838]

What is the consensus on red wine kits left for 2 months or more to clear and put straight into bottles with no additives.
I like the idea of additive free wine and my home-brew shop have quite a few customers who swear by it.
What do you guys think? What about that yeast in the gut, is it going to mean I need to get shares in Andrex?
I'm not so bothered about the re fermentation because the wine is going to be fermented out.
I know it might not last over 6 months but wine never lasts very long in my house before it gets filtered biologically and flushed in the big white telephone. :drink:

Anyone do this?, additive free and can put me at ease, or otherwise of course.

Pros and Cons much appreciated.

Mike

 

[alanywiseman.]

As long as you dont backsweeten with sugar I do not see a problem :thumb:

 

[mike383838]

Thanks for that.

Main Question is, do any of you get tummy reactions to home-brew and not with commercial due to the yeast and does stabilising make this less likely. Or do I forget about the stigma that I have heard so many times in relation to home-brew being rough on the intestinal track. Mainly in relation to kit red wines if any of you have fermented them.

Thanks

 

[alanywiseman.]

I can not comment on wine but there are plenty of commercial brews that bottle condition beers, homebrews bottle condition beers and cider, commercial cider can contain yeast. If these gave you a bad stomach then people would not buy them.

Give your wine plenty of time to clear then bottle it. The only worry I would have is oxygeanation during transfer and bottleing due to the lack of campden tablets.

 

[mike383838]

Thanks, that's kind of what I was looking for, I suppose the best way is to "suck it and see". I'm gona be very careful on bottling so as to reduce oxidization. I might use a little Potassium Sorbate if you think that would be a good idea?

 

[Moley]

You can't use PotSorb without CTs or it might give your wine a funny taint.

If you aren't back sweetening then you don't need to use either, just try to avoid splashing.

After a couple of months your wine should be totally clear, rack it again before bottling, so there is no residual yeast to be concerned about.

If your wine is properly fermented and not rushed then there is absolutely no reason why it should cause digestive problems or headaches.

 

[mike383838]

Thanks Moley

Please forgive my learning curve
If I rack it again before bottling could I use some bentonite to clear it more. If I do rack and shake bentonite into it, will that oxygenate it from the little air that would be in the top. If I rack again as you say before bottling, I take it I need to leave it again for a day or two to settle before bottling?.

Sorry, So many questions, I just don't want to have wasted two months of "watching this kettle boil" if you get me. I've racked this twice so far already once after 7 days and once after 20 days into 5 X DJs, its now on the go for 38 days, so its already very clear looking.

Any advice much appreciated.

Mike

 

[bobsbeer]

No need to add bentonite, if it is clear now then adding bentonite will not make it clearer. DON'T WORRY. :grin: Rack it again and leave it for as long as you can. A few months and it will be great.

 

[Jonny69]

Hi Mike, I rarely use finings or any form of preservative in my wines and ciders and I'm always fine. I've only force-cleared one wine with finings so far which was a stubborn WOW and all the other have cleared by themselves given time. As long as you use a manufactured yeast (like Young's etc) they are designed to drop out quickly by themselves. Natural yeast can be a bit slower and I may have to use finings on my parsnip wine as the natural yeast has dropped out but it's loaded with pectin from the parsnips which is cloudy. You won't get a bad tummy from a bit of yeast - even if it's really cloudy and yeasty it's never upset my stomach, so god knows what they do to it in the pub.

For clearing, I normally just leave it in the demijohn until all the yeast has dropped to the bottom by itself. Manufactured yeasts take a few weeks and form a nice solid sediment at the bottom, but natural yeasts can take a few months and you need to move the demijohn carefully so you don't shake it all back into the mix.

I don't use Campden or sorbate unless I really have to. If I know a drink is going in a container where I won't drink it for a few weeks or months then I'll add half-quantities and it seems to be plenty. Generally I don't bother though. I didn't know about what Moley mentioned about using sorbate by itself - every day is a school day!

 

[Pearlfisher]

I know we're talking wine here but have a read of this from the Moor brewery website-

"Won’t drinking cloudy beer give me a bad tummy or a yeast infection? " Drinking the end of a FINED cask means you are consuming both yeast and isinglass finings, which led to the belief that you will get a bad tummy from cloudy beer. Unfined natural beer does not have isinglass and will not give you a bad tummy. On the contrary, it contains higher levels of brewers’ yeast, which can be used as a nutritional supplement. Brewers’ yeast is a source of B-vitamins, chromium and protein. It has been used to treat diarrhoea, the common cold, viral infections, influenza, loss of appetite, PMS, skin problems, and type 2 diabetes. Also, brewers’ yeast is a different type of yeast to the one that causes yeast infections, so you will not get a yeast infection from drinking unfined beer. Some people are allergic to brewers’ yeast, in which case they should not be drinking beer at all. The examples above are not health recommendations. You should consult your GP before taking any supplements, and remember to consume alcohol in moderation.

 

[mickthetrick]

i can't remember which but i saw a program a wile back were people in Belgium actually drink the yeast/beer . think they sell it in bars

 

[alanywiseman.]

I know we're talking wine here but have a read of this from the Moor brewery website-

"Won’t drinking cloudy beer give me a bad tummy or a yeast infection? " Drinking the end of a FINED cask means you are consuming both yeast and isinglass finings, which led to the belief that you will get a bad tummy from cloudy beer. Unfined natural beer does not have isinglass and will not give you a bad tummy. On the contrary, it contains higher levels of brewers’ yeast, which can be used as a nutritional supplement. Brewers’ yeast is a source of B-vitamins, chromium and protein. It has been used to treat diarrhoea, the common cold, viral infections, influenza, loss of appetite, PMS, skin problems, and type 2 diabetes. Also, brewers’ yeast is a different type of yeast to the one that causes yeast infections, so you will not get a yeast infection from drinking unfined beer. Some people are allergic to brewers’ yeast, in which case they should not be drinking beer at all. The examples above are not health recommendations. You should consult your GP before taking any supplements, and remember to consume alcohol in moderation.

I need to start drinking more beer in that case :lol: :lol:

 

[RobWalker]

Additive free? You're getting me excited now.

If you want natural finers, keep your egg shells, bake them gently in the oven to dry them out, then crush them very finely and keep in a small tub. It's an all natural clearing agent!

As for killing your wine, you can pasteurize them by dunking them in water of a certain temperature once bottled. That will kill the yeast, but won't affect the wine itself. I forget what the temperature is, but it works a treat. You can even carbonate and pasteurize for sweet, fizzy wine (albeit with sediment.)

But these are just suggestions :lol: and yep, trub is very good for you, some brewers add a lump into the keg as they believe it's good for the beer :thumb:

 

[mike383838]

Fantastic :

I heard about the eggshell thing somewhere before, seems reasonable.

The pasteurizing in the bottle I'm gona research, that sounds like a plan if it doesn't change the wine.

So one more question... (that's probably gona be a lie :) ) :- How long will this last if I just bottle it without additives. I mean could I drink one month after bottling it if it brews for 2 months and into bottles after? (=3 months total time)

Edit:----- After looking at the pasteurization technique I think its critical with wine and can change the taste/ageing. With cider it looks to work fine. I might try it with 2 bottles of Rioja to experience for myself. My brew-shop says kit wines un-stabilized should last for 6 months, anyone disagree?

 

[Jonny69]

If there's little to no air in there and you keep it in the cool and dark in glass bottles, it should keep pretty much indefinitely. A month will be fine even if you don't look after it very well. My parsnip wine is just sitting in the demijohn. It's been in there since July and I'll probably bottle it in 6 months time or so :thumb:

 

[WillG3]

I've been testing un-stabilized, un-settled, sometimes even un-racked home brews on my mates :whistle: (in large quantities ) and they are yet to complain. And they are the sort of mates who wouldn't think twice about it if they had cause....

 

[bobsbeer]

There is no reason that unstabilised wine would not last for years. Assuming the alcohol content was over 10%. All you are doing by adding pot sorb is stopping the yeast dividing not adding preservative. So as long as you are sure the yeast have given up due to lack of sugar you will be fine. Any risidual dormant yeast will actually be good for you not bad. Look in a health food shop and you will see lots of yeast tablets or other preperations. As has been said it contains vitamin B which we need. The main reason for stopping the wine it to ensure no further fermentation takes place and therefore does not carbonate the wine in unsuitable bottles. Left alone to mature under airlock will allow the yeast to die off and any disolved co2 to disipate and will be fine without any other chemicals added.

 

[mike383838]

Now your Talking my Language, so many people are scared to keep wine unpreserved/no sulfur added, and I always thought alcohol was a preservative so I like this thought, I will find out soon enough. :) Starting to drink my first kit wine after 40 days brewing and clearing, its a bit meaty/harsh bouquet but I think its this kit because the cellar 7 Shiraz is already better/fruity bouquet tasting and its only 14 days old. We all make mistakes.

 

[Frogfurlong]

There is a difference between drinkable and Drinkable My winekit was drinkable at the time it was bottled, I shall leave it until xmas though...then it will be matured a bit and definately more Drinkable.


As for unpreserved wines, they'll give you many years of pleasure

I rarely preserve wines, only ever had one go bad... That was a troublesome ferment anyway, high daytime temperatures and constant fruitfly activity. A real recipe for yeuch!


It'll be fine.

 

[tonyhibbett]

When in Germany, I was introduced to wheat beer, which has a yeast sediment and is great stuff, and is purported to be a tonic. Yeast has lots of vitamin b and is available in tablet form in health shops. The reason why sulphites are mentioned on all bottles of wine, is that some people are allergic to the stuff. Typically potassium metabisulphite is added as a precaution against oxidisation and, although it degrades with time, persists even a year later. I have tested commercial wine and found it to contain more than twice as much as my own, young wine. Leading Canadian wine kit producers supply it as an optional precaution if the finished wine is to be stored for more than 6 months.
Grape juice concentrate is typically pre dosed with preservatives, so much so, that when I used some to boost the quality of my home produced grape juice, the yeast instantly died!
But let's not get too precious here. Ethyl alcohol is a toxic substance anyway!