No/low alcohol brew

[grooves]

Last night on the telly I saw a segment on low alcohol beers - and it actually contained some technical info. The brewer said he mashed at 86c and that was the only difference between his alcoholic brews and his low-alcohol brews. Has anyone tried this?

 

[The Baron]

There are a few members who have done low alcohol brews just await answers

 

[Sadfield]

@peebee has a couple of threads on this subject, if you do a forum search.

I've done a couple at 0.5%, but haven't mashed that high (72c), and the grists were changed quite a bit from normal brews. I've also done brews at 2.5% that weren't that different from normal.

What TV program was it? Who was the brewer? What sort of abv were they classing as 'Low'?

Mashing at 86c is something I need to visit sometime though. I just haven't the need for low alcohol beers at the moment.

 

[grooves]

I'm ashamed to say it was "Secrets of Your Supermarket Shop"

I think it was 0.5% - basically classed as no alcohol.

I've done a beer at 2.8% (my lowest) which came out great.

 

[grooves]

Interestingly he was using LalBrew Windsor yeast. So maybe following the same doc

 

[Sadfield]

Cheers, I'll check it out.

 

[BackToBasics]

Interestingly he was using LalBrew Windsor yeast. So maybe following the same doc

David Heath has a video on a low ABV IPA using a 80°c mash + Windsor. It is a smaller grist than usual but he adds body with lactose.

I had a go at it a while ago and the beer is okay. Not mind blowing but decent and an acceptable substitute for the real thing. It's far better than other low alcohol ales I've had.

If it's something you are interested in I'd suggest giving it a go. My only suggestion would be to watch the IBUs. With such a low ABV it's all too easy to push the bitterness too far.

 

[BackToBasics]

 

[SheffieldBrew]

How did people find the above brew? I found that an 80°c mash gave really quite an astringent taste and dropping it to 74°c made it much nicer at the expense of more alcohol.

Are other people not finding the astringency at 80°c, there’s always the possibility that it’s something with my process

 

[sifty]

I tried to brew a 2.5% as an exercise but it came in at 3.7.
Still low compared to my usual 6-7% but not really what I was after...

 

[BackToBasics]

How did people find the above brew? I found that an 80°c mash gave really quite an astringent taste and dropping it to 74°c made it much nicer at the expense of more alcohol.

Are other people not finding the astringency at 80°c, there’s always the possibility that it’s something with my process

I don't think I got astringency from it. It was overly bitter though - possibly I'm confusing hop bitterness with astringency? I've still got it on tap. Give me a while to finish my current drink and I'll report back.

 

[BackToBasics]

Okay, it's definitely bitter rather than astringent.

It is lacking something - maybe it's a bit thin. Still quite happy to drink it when I'm having a night off the booze though. I suspect the keg will be emptied before the 2 bottle of Becks Blue in my fridge get drunk.

 

[SheffieldBrew]

Thanks!

I might give it another bash at 80 then

 

[peebee]

@peebee has a couple of threads on this subject, if you do a forum search.

Thanks

My low alcohol "project" has gotten a bit eclipsed by the "invert sugar" and "pyknometer" projects (the "brown malt" ramblings have gotten a bit neglected too). But I do continue my low alcohol "research" (i.e. I buy commercial offerings in for my "abstention days"!).

When I left off the low alcohol "project" I was exploring the "cold mash" ideas: No-one need go there, it's full of difficulties and very real hazards (burning out your boiler element out doesn't sound like fun). But the "cold mash" ideas do set you up to appreciate the (very) hot mash approach! Haven't tried mashing at 80C+ yet, but the method certainly has merits.

David Heath has a video on a low ABV IPA using a 80°c mash + Windsor. It is a smaller grist than usual but he adds body with lactose.

Yeap, David Heath's video is a good introduction to the technique. But, by his own admission, it is based on the work by Lallemand that @Sadfield posted above. Mashing at 80+C sounds disastrous, but the beta-enzymes will run for a few minutes at that temperature and most sugar (for a low alcohol brew) is already in the malt (glucose, sucrose, etc) and only needs leaching out. The alpha-enzymes tolerate the temperature a bit longer and make sure the starch is converted (to long chain "dextrin").

Lactose is added for sweetness which may counter the high bitterness in low alcohol beers? Lactose isn't for body, the huge quantity of dextrin from the mash does that.

And that's also the importance of using yeast like Windsor. They won't ferment malt-triose (the commonest dextrin). Use something like US-05 and you can forget about "low alcohol"! I used S-33 (but was only mashing at 74C which often resulted in higher ABV than desired), but I am edging towards Windsor as a more reliable yeast flavour-wise. Dry yeast is fine (and "aerating" pointless), liquid yeasts ... probably wasted on these beers? But they must be malt-triose intolerant.

Some commercial yeasts for low alcohol brewing (also obtainable for HB) will not ferment "maltose", but I think (I don't know) they might be responsible for the unfermented wort flavour of some commercial beers. Mashing at 80+C sounds much smarter.

I don't think I got astringency from it. It was overly bitter though - possibly I'm confusing hop bitterness with astringency?

You are picking out two common problems there. Bitterness is often confused with astringency (even though astringency is a feeling, not a flavour), possibly because they often (but not exclusively) go hand-in-hand.

And the second, excessive bitterness, is a recurring problem with low alcohol beer. Most excessively bitter low alcohol beers also exhibit a "dank, corrugated cardboard" flavour: I'd include "Brewdog Nanny State" (along with my attempts to copy it!) and "Big Drop Paradiso" amongst this category, although "Big Drop" somehow get away with the "dankness" in their "Pine Trail" beer* (Big Drop was my favourite low alcohol beer, but they seem to have given up on their original pale ale). Trusting in the OG:IBU ratio principal seems the best way to avoid excessive bitterness in these beers even though it might indicate tiny hop additions.

[EDIT: *They list this beer with a face puckering 42IBUs! A pale ale I made only had 15g hops (Nelson Sauvin) in 18L, and they were all steep hops to keep the IBUs down ... 6IBUs calculated. Did have 25g as dry hops too.]

 

[Agentgonzo]

If you're making a wort with very few fermentable sugars, does that mean the fermentation is don't pretty quickly and the yeast doesn't do much work? What effect does this have on an the flavours the yeast normally imparts into the beer?

 

[Jim Brewster]

Dry yeast is fine (and "aerating" pointless), liquid yeasts ... probably wasted on these beers? But they must be malt-triose intolerant.

I there a database on which yeasts aren't able to metabolise maltotriose?

 

[peebee]

If you're making a wort with very few fermentable sugars, does that mean the fermentation is don't pretty quickly and the yeast doesn't do much work? What effect does this have on an the flavours the yeast normally imparts into the beer?

Blink and you miss it! I ferment these beers under pressure to carbonate the beer at the same time (the amount of pressure being dictated by the amount of carbonation desired). I ferment them in the dispensing keg anyway, not just as a labour-saving wheeze, but so the finished beer isn't handled un-necessarily (I consider such weak beer to be at increased risk of spoilage). Fermenting under-pressure gives some indication that fermentation "happened".

How much effect the yeast has on such beers ... . This would be my reason for saying:

... liquid yeasts ... probably wasted on these beers?

But if these exotic low alcohol yeasts are responsible for the "raw wort" flavour of some commercial beers, then these yeasts do have a flavour impact (which I don't like!).

I there a database on which yeasts aren't able to metabolise maltotriose?

Not that I know of. I go by the published "attenuation figures". 68-72% is a fairly reliable indicator ... 80%+ and you have a dead-cert loser!

 

[Sadfield]

In my experience, very little difference in flavour to using a really clean fermenting yeast like US05 in a standard strength beer. The only issue I've had is with quick flocculation and the yeast needing rousing to complete the diacetyl removal.

I there a database on which yeasts aren't able to metabolise maltotriose?

I don't know of one. However on page 12 of this lists the remaining maltotriose after fermentation for fermentis yeasts. Lallemand say Windsor, London and CBC-1 are.

 

[Jim Brewster]

I don't know of one. However on page 12 of this lists the remaining maltotriose after fermentation for fermentis yeasts. Lallemand say Windsor, London and CBC-1 are.

Thanks. I think S33 would be my "go-to" then as I've already had good results using it in the past. I don't mind a hazy beer