No covid ***

[MickDundee]

I did a quick Google search. The covid vaccine was rushed, but no safety aspect was compromised. It was made a lot faster because more people were working on it than would usually work on a vaccine. Opinion: COVID-19 vaccines – are they safe, or have they been rushed?.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/were-the-covid-19-vaccines-rushed
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-02...-safe-our-statistician-answers-your-questions

Yeah I have also read that a lot of the tests they do on vaccines were being done alongside each other rather than one after the other.

There’s a fairly prominent surgeon/academic from our local NHS Board who has done some pretty good Facebook posts around COVID myths.

 

[VW911]

Personally, I didn't really want the vaccine, even though my immune system is shot to f**k! I have to take a cocktail of medication (9 tablets in the morning, 4 at lunch time, and 4 at night),to function (almost) properly.
I really didn't want any more medication, but I can see that it's the right thing to do - not necessarily for me, but those around me, so I've had both jabs.
I don't like people much, so don't tend to get involved in social groups, work is safe, but the wife works in a school, so has no choice about contact with several hundred potential carriers.
I was hoping that the 2nd *** would kick start my immune system, but no joy yet!

 

[marshbrewer]

The decision as to what medical treatment a person receives should be for them, and them alone (obviously, kids / people unable to make that decision, it should be for their parent /guardian). If you think otherwise, and I'm happy to say I haven't seen this opinion expressed on here, then you need to have a long, hard think about your approach to natural rights.

However, don't think that saying that people should be excluded from aspects of society because they choose not to have a certain medical treatment is much better morally. In a way it's worse, in that you want compulsion but don't have the balls to see men with guns rounding up people. At least compulsion nut jobs have the courage of their convictions.

 

[Rodcx500z]

The decision as to what medical treatment a person receives should be for them, and them alone (obviously, kids / people unable to make that decision, it should be for their parent /guardian)

I agree with what you are saying it's a personal choice but, i would hate to think someone else's live was in danger because of a choice i made

 

[marshbrewer]

Sure, and that has contributed, no doubt, to the choice you made. Likewise for me; I think the young have had the sh*tty end of the stick during this pandemic, so I chose to have it (partly) to hope that lockdown would end more quickly (ho ho ho) as well as for a number of personal reasons.

But the key word is choice, and I mean free choice not coerced 'choice'

 

[obscure]

I wil start off with the standard yes I signed up for my *** as soon as it opened up for my age group and had my first one last Sunday.

That said one article I was reading in the NY Times I think summed up one of the big isssues with vaccines quite well, on the whole the majority of us don’t actually understand the science behind them in more than a very abstract sense. Therefore the decision to have it relies on a general trust in government and more importantly in scientific institutions. I couldn’t personally say that I know for certain the vaccine is safe and effective but I have enough faith in medical regulators to take them at their word on this. The argument is that in certain communities in the case of this article amongst many White Evangelical christians their is a lack of trust in institutions, in govement and scientists leading in turn to vaccine hesitancy and you could easily apply this to a lot of other communities.

I did a quick Google search. The covid vaccine was rushed, but no safety aspect was compromised. It was made a lot faster because more people were working on it than would usually work on a vaccine. Opinion: COVID-19 vaccines – are they safe, or have they been rushed?.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/were-the-covid-19-vaccines-rushed
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-02...-safe-our-statistician-answers-your-questions

I happily take the view that yes the vaccines where developed quickly but suspect that a huge amount of time is normally wasted in developing vaccines in searching for funding, for trial volunteers etc. suddenly you had a situation where arguably money was no longer an issue, COVID was on the news every night and people where lining up to volunteer to take part in clinical trials. When govements worldwide are spending in the trillions on economic measures to curtail the impact of lockdowns what’s a few billion for vaccine development.

 

[StJayJay]

With civil rights come civil responsibility, one of which is the responsibility to our fellow citizens. Refusal is a choice but it is a selfish one and a complete abrogation of civic responsibility. I dread to think of all the other nasty diseases which would be endemic but have been eradicated because people knew getting vaccinated was the right thing to do.
Anyway, as well as all that, everyone knows the vaccine also blocks the effects of those chemtrails Bill Gates’ nemesis George Soros and the Illuminati are trying to poison us with.

 

[dad_of_jon]

The reason Bill Gates is keen on vaccination is because his old company's products were riddled with viruses.

Which makes me wonder is Steve Jobs was an anti-vaccer

 

[Chippy_Tea]

All care home staff have 16 weeks to get both jabs or they lose their jobs the unions are not happy how long before the first court case.

 

[chopps]

All care home staff have 16 weeks to get both jabs or they lose their jobs the unions are not happy how long before the first court case.

I wonder if it's so easy to overturn employment law here?

As I understand it - and I'm no expert... if there's a change to the terms of employment (and this would be) and the employees are not willing to accept the change then it starts to get interesting with statutory duties, collective consultations, lawyers, money, redundancy obligations. Either dismissal and re-engagement under the new terms, or 'here's some money and goodbye'
Or does that all not matter if a change of law makes it illegal for the unvaccinated to go to work? Messy.

 

[foxy]

I wonder if it's so easy to overturn employment law here?

As I understand it - and I'm no expert... if there's a change to the terms of employment (and this would be) and the employees are not willing to accept the change then it starts to get interesting with statutory duties, collective consultations, lawyers, money, redundancy obligations. Either dismissal and re-engagement under the new terms, or 'here's some money and goodbye'
Or does that all not matter if a change of law makes it illegal for the unvaccinated to go to work? Messy.

It is interesting because even if they have both jabs doesn't exempt them for carrying the virus.

 

[samale]

All care home staff have 16 weeks to get both jabs or they lose their jobs the unions are not happy how long before the first court case.

Is that legal. I always wondered if companies would go down this line. The company I work for encourages everyone to get a vaccine

 

[Graz]

I have a severe needle phobia (faint every time) and so have never accepted the flu *** and delay for as long as possible requests from my dr for the regular blood tests I need. However, I was at the clinic as soon as I got the call for both my jabs. Person after me had to wait a bit mind you

I'm not quite that bad but not far off, worst episode was blacking out from a simple finger prick test during a hospital appointment, coming round with an ECG machine being rapidly connected to me and then getting sent round to casualty due to an abnormal heart rhythm being seen. Eventually it was just put down to anxiety but because of it I then ended up getting a blood test done that day and an MRI sometime later where I had to have another needle for the special dye stuff they use

You'd think I'd be over it by now, I was getting diagnosed for a health issue a few years back that involved a fair few blood tests, CT scans, etc. and eventually an operation for a biopsy. I still get blood tests done from time to time but it continues to bring me out in a cold sweat. I've kind of figured a way to deal with that now which is to drink plenty beforehand (my hidden veins don't help matters) and ask to be lying down when it's taken. The nurse is very nice and if you let them know your anxiety then they keep you talking to put you at ease while they do it.

Because of all the above I'm now in the vulnerable group for Covid so whilst nervous about getting my *** I was also keen the have it done. Not sure if it was the excitement or the relief of it all but had no problem with the first shot despite having to queue up for a while just to build the tension. I can't look at it going in and that one hurt a bit. Second *** similar to the first except this time I wasn't even sure she'd done it, didn't feel it go in at all.

So yeah get it done, your protecting my life as well as your own. Thanks

P.S. I grew up in Benfleet, guess that's where you live based on the user name

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Covid vaccine to be required for England care home staff Covid vaccine to be required for England care home staff

 

[krispn]

Being cautious about a vaccine is no different to being cautious about any other medication one might be prescribed. It is up to the individual to determine if the risk is enough to warrant taking the medication versus the effects of the disease/virus/cancer etc.

I’m not anti vax nor am I a conspiracy theorist but if we step back and look at the guidelines for the vaccination it is on license to have two doses within 21 days. To give the second dose 3 months later does have an impact of efficacy and sure 50% efficacy is better than 0% but the medication is still being used off license to it’s manufactures intended use schedule and I’m fine with that. With that in mind it would be great to see a readiness to use other medications (with well established safety records) being used “off license” to treat and manage Covid either as a prophylactic treatment or as an alternative to a vaccine which many people are unsure of. Can there really only be one route to see people treated for covid? I’m sure many of the posters on this thread are aware of the ongoing research into ivermectin and it’s positive impact as a prophylactic treatment alternative. It’s very promising to see a well established medication with a 40yr safety record, a Noble prize and one of the WHO’s essential medications being used as another option. At a few quid a dose it offers an affordable alternative to a vaccine and could bridge the gap between vaccine reluctance and getting affordable meds to a greater number of people worldwide. I’m keeping an eye on the ongoing research and it could see some well established medications being used in this ongoing fight.

 

[chopps]

@krispn but even so, entirely approved and regulated.

According the the Royal Pharmaceutical Society / regulatory approval -

AZ-
The recommended dosage is two doses with the second dose “administered between four and 12 weeks after the first dose”, not 21 days apart.

PfizerBion -
The recommended dosage is two doses “at least 21 days apart”, not exactly 21 days apart

The clinical trial had a planned interval between doses of 21 days, but participants actually received their second vaccination 19 to 42 days after the first vaccination.

Source - RPS statement on change in COVID-19 vaccine dosing interval

 

[samale]

All care home staff have 16 weeks to get both jabs or they lose their jobs the unions are not happy how long before the first court case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57496137
Just announced that it not compulsory in N. Ireland but suggests the up take is very high

 

[krispn]

Totally and where I work the PfizerBion was the main vaccine used and folks were getting them as afar apart as three months which is outside the parameters of the clinical trial which does have an impact on the overall efficacy... but I'm not here to say its going to kill off humanity or contains microchips. That's not useful debate. I'm simply interested in the alternatives we may already have in our formulary, other medications which are showing great promise in the treatment or prevention of covid but there appears to be reluctance to approve their use with any urgency which considering their long established safety record is a more appealing option to many over novel vaccines where we can't really say with certain what the long term effects are.

When we consider how much we all wish to see things return to normal and see covid gone it is logical to continue research and trials so that we have more than one magic bullet especially with a known treatment with a high safety record. It's got to be worth a look to ensure we can get as many people commenceing a treatment which acknowledges safety concerns and promotes concordance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/ivermectin.html
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/campbell/lecture/

 

[ChrisR73]

I have heard all the conspiracy theories from my brother but I have also heard from people with genuine reasons. One retired nurse I was talking to refused on the basis that it was rushed through and could have unknown long term side effects.
He never once told me not to get it and I respect his decision as stated above its his personal choice.

Really interesting that as no vaccines have any long-term side effects.
These ones have only been “rushed” in terms of all the delays for finding and approval have been removed, plus of course many had a head-start after the original SARS outbreak.
A medical professional should be more concerned with the disease that is actually killing millions instead of hypothetical risks with little basis in reality.

 

[krispn]

If the normal cycle to get to market is 7-10 years there is opportunity within that time scale to see longitudinal developments with the initial and subsequent test groups. I'm not suggesting that we're gonna see massive complications related to mRNA vaccines, but the expeditious nature of these current vaccines means that we can't predict long term outcomes for people based on the short term data. That's not to suggest we're sitting on a time bomb but as it stands we can't say either way. It's why I would like to see established 'safe' medications considered as off license alternatives alongside novel treatments.
Some of the difficulty is that becasue some of these medications are so cheap to make there is little incentive for big pharma to seek out emergency use authorisation or approval with MHRA, FDA etc.

To say there is no harm from vaccines may not be entirely accurate as some of the Yellow Card information coming in may suggest some people have had adverse reactions. Yellow Card is a system used by clinicians in the reporting adverse reactions with medications. Sorry for all the links. I hope folks can see they're not promoting conspiracy or anti vac rhetoric simply providing current research and reporting systems used by clinicians and some of their meta-data analysis.

http://medisolve.org/yellowcard_urg...CaQ7A4heGucozyaz_JXL5ctl-wWfEtbx8kVFVLCbgUC3w
https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/