No Chill in Cube Question

[David Woods]

So the all grain journey is about to start and at the moment I am going to no chill in a cube until later when I hope to arrange something else.
The question is if I am going to do a brew day my plan is to actually create 2 brews and store them both in cubes then ferment one after the other thus maximising my time and beer output

I saw a Youtube video recently where someone fermented something that had been left in a cube for 2 years:



Now there's no way I would do this and my plan of a 2 week wait before fermenting the second cube seems fine compared to this.

Anyone got any thoughts on this - have you done it? any pitfalls apart from the risk of infection? Just seems like a good way to go given a long brew day anyway. Just seems like a way to go as I can only ferment one batch at a time in my temp controlled fridge!

Would like your thoughts

 

[Rwilts]

Yes did exactly this a year or so back, I did a partygayle brewday . No impact on fermenting two weeks apart .will try and find image -nope you will have to imagine what two cubes full of different coloured liquids stood side by side look like

 

[AnimatedGIF]

So the all grain journey is about to start and at the moment I am going to no chill in a cube until later when I hope to arrange something else.
The question is if I am going to do a brew day my plan is to actually create 2 brews and store them both in cubes then ferment one after the other thus maximising my time and beer output

I saw a Youtube video recently where someone fermented something that had been left in a cube for 2 years:



Now there's no way I would do this and my plan of a 2 week wait before fermenting the second cube seems fine compared to this.

Anyone got any thoughts on this - have you done it? any pitfalls apart from the risk of infection? Just seems like a good way to go given a long brew day anyway. Just seems like a way to go as I can only ferment one batch at a time in my temp controlled fridge!

Would like your thoughts

I see no issue. I have brewed recently using no-chill having left it in the cube for 2 weeks.

 

[MashBag]

Measure the cube volume and work the recipe back. Some 25l tubs are nearer 30.

And when you hit them with hot wort, they go baggy.. So hold a bit more again.....

@peebee can testify to that

 

[peebee]

I'm struggling with "no-chill" cubes at the moment. They offer, what I see as a major advantage, the ability to put off some tricky operations to another day; Operations that I find hard after a day brewing beer ... like making sure the fermenter is fit for transferring the wort (all those pipes and taps to be sure of), making sure the yeast starter is fit to pitch, ensuring the starting gravity is taken and the electronic hydrometer is logging correctly, ensuring the cooling system is functioning ... everything coming in contact with the wort in "sanitised" and zzzzzzzz.

Big problem I'm trying to deal with: The volumes of those cubes are nonsense. I've for years honed my brewing so just the right volumes are created at the different stages. It's been made easier of late with brewing calculators doing the heavy arithmetic. Put the exceedingly hot wort into a polythene "cube" that must be filled to the brim ... and all those calculations are shot to bits!

I'm currently waiting for timber to turn up to create simple slats which together with some ratchet straps (don't rely on buckles!) should hold the "cubes" in predictable shapes.



As for storing unfermented wort in them: There must be a point where you can guarantee you've not allowed a viable colony of bugs to have access to your wort, and the point when luck takes over. I haven't moved my "risk acceptance" beyond a couple of days yet.

 

[Rwilts]

I'm struggling with "no-chill" cubes at the moment. They offer, what I see as a major advantage, the ability to put off some tricky operations to another day; Operations that I find hard after a day brewing beer ... like making sure the fermenter is fit for transferring the wort (all those pipes and taps to be sure of), making sure the yeast starter is fit to pitch, ensuring the starting gravity is taken and the electronic hydrometer is logging correctly, ensuring the cooling system is functioning ... everything coming in contact with the wort in "sanitised" and zzzzzzzz.

Big problem I'm trying to deal with: The volumes of those cubes are nonsense. I've for years honed my brewing so just the right volumes are created at the different stages. It's been made easier of late with brewing calculators doing the heavy arithmetic. Put the exceedingly hot wort into a polythene "cube" that must be filled to the brim ... and all those calculations are shot to bits!

I'm currently waiting for timber to turn up to create simple slats which together with some ratchet straps (don't rely on buckles!) should hold the "cubes" in predictable shapes.



As for storing unfermented wort in them: There must be a point where you can guarantee you've not allowed a viable colony of bugs to have access to your wort, and the point when luck takes over. I haven't moved my "risk acceptance" beyond a couple of days yet.

Re filling to the brim , I have never had an issue with lower volumes in the cube, I would not advocate half filling, but 20 L in a 25L cube hasn't been an issue. Neither do I squeeze the cube. There are risks will all stages of brewings but so far this hasn't been an issue

 

[Twostage]

I'm not a cuber (cubist) but a video I saw talked about leaving it for a couple of months. I think of it like jam, you boil something sugary and then seal it in a container. A few months later you stick it on your toast (or ferment it).

 

[homebrewdev]

Neither do I squeeze the cube. There are risks will all stages of brewings but so far this hasn't been an issue

Would steam and temperature at this point sanitise remaining space?

Also, do you drop wort temp to something like 95 before transferring to the cube or as soon as the boil is over?

 

[Rwilts]

Would steam and temperature at this point sanitise remaining space?

Also, do you drop wort temp to something like 95 before transferring to the cube or as soon as the boil is over?

I always sanitise my cube but yes the boiling wort and steam will sanitise it anyway.

most of the time I transfer straight after boil ends , there have been a few with a hop stand , end of boil addition but I made sure I transferred before temp dropped to 80 in those few brews.

 

[tondy79]

Where there is a hopstand or a whirlpool at 80c or the like, I was wondering about the viability of bringing the wort up to 85-90 afterwards and directly before "cubing" just as a safety measure... any thoughts on that?

 

[Rwilts]

I believe pastursation occurs above 70 so raising again isn't necessary

 

[MrJay83]

Would steam and temperature at this point sanitise remaining space?

Also, do you drop wort temp to something like 95 before transferring to the cube or as soon as the boil is over?

I've done 2 brews were I let it drop to 90C and then pump it. I just don't trust the cubes above that. I also put the the cube in one of those 5 gallon rubber buckets just to be safe with some water to keep the bottom end more rigid (where most of the pressure is).
I let it sit for a while and drop a bit more in temperature before I'll give it turn to coat the top but I'm sure the heat it killing anything unwanted anyway. I just make sure to have it as clean and sanitized as I would my fermenter. No infection issues so far
I really need to get a couple of 20l ones because my 25l cubes must be close to 30l.

 

[David Woods]

So just done my first all grain and used a cube - before I did I checked the volume and the 20l cubes I bought held just over 25l so perfect for me.

These cubes didn't really sag and they seemed fine - I transferred straight after the boil with no issues the next morning it was down to 22deg and into the fermenter. Hopefully no problems. I bought my cubes here for a very reasonable price: £16 for two including delivery

https://itppackaging.com/product/20-litre-plastic-jerry-can

 

[Jordang]

For overnight no chill I’ve just been transferring direct to my sanitised plastic fv. I cover the air lock with some kitchen roll to stop any bugs and then pitch when at the desire temp. haven’t had a problem in the last 12 brews.

 

[peebee]

@Jordang: What you're describing is pretty much what we all did 40 years ago. Maybe even plonk the fermenter in a cold bath overnight.

"No-chill" cubes go a step beyond that. Leaving you with more time to decide when you add the yeast. Some character on this site is describing fermenting the wort after two years! Bit extreme, I've yet to get past two days.

Here's some example of what I'm up to with it (trying to get some predictability out of these cubes):

[EDIT: "Some character on this site is describing fermenting the wort after two years!" I say ... It was @David Woods in the OP of this thread!]

 

[Rwilts]

@Jordang: What you're describing is pretty much what we all did 40 years ago. Maybe even plonk the fermenter in a cold bath overnight.

"No-chill" cubes go a step beyond that. Leaving you with more time to decide when you add the yeast. Some character on this site is describing fermenting the wort after two years! Bit extreme, I've yet to get past two days.

Here's some example of what I'm up to with it (trying to get some predictability out of these cubes):

View attachment 91143

Are you bracing to stop them deforming ?

 

[peebee]

That's right. Making the resulting volumes more predictable (last attempt made beer 10% lower gravity than expected ... but 10% more volume!).

[EDIT: It doesn't prevent them deforming in all circumstances. DO NOT attempt to lift hot cubes by the handle!!!]

 

[MashBag]

For overnight no chill I’ve just been transferring direct to my sanitised plastic fv. I cover the air lock with some kitchen roll to stop any bugs and then pitch when at the desire temp. haven’t had a problem in the last 12 brews.

I leave mine in the kettle overnight. Fermentation next day should airways be fine. Cubes give you aseptic storage at ambient for months.

 

[Jordang]

I leave mine in the kettle overnight. Fermentation next day should airways be fine. Cubes give you aseptic storage at ambient for months.

I did this a couple of times but I like to clean up after brewing so it fits better with me

 

[MashBag]

That makes proper sense. I leave the BM in situ outside and it will be doing "somthing"