No Chill Cube- wort transfer question

[Gerryjo]

Cheers- as you say great advice as always here, I do really appreciate it- as Phil said I will try the easier fixes first, a good rolling boil and some finings. I will mainly be brewing hoppy IPA's as that is what I like to drink so may have to concede they'll never be clear- the Cascade Citra IPA which wasn't clear when chilled had a 60g dry hop and 110g of hops in total. I had one last night from the garage and it was tasty and a nice straw colour, really taste is the main but clarity would be a bonus.

Try cutting back on your dry hopping and add at 10mins/flame out as what you have certainly seems to be hop haze.
As @PhilBrew suggested using finings in the boil this will help. If your beer tastes good drink it but if your bottle conditioning a hoppy beer then it's drink it young and enjoy the flavour or let it age to clear and lose the aroma. Bitter sweet trade off unfortunately.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

Try cutting back on your dry hopping and add at 10mins/flame out as what you have certainly seems to be hop haze.
As @PhilBrew suggested using finings in the boil this will help. If your beer tastes good drink it but if your bottle conditioning a hoppy beer then it's drink it young and enjoy the flavour or let it age to clear and lose the aroma. Bitter sweet trade off unfortunately.

Thank you, I'll try that too, at the moment I am both late, flameout, and dry hopping- I'll give upping late and flamout a go too. What I have left is now just over 7 weeks bottled so I won't let it age much more before drinking the rest. So far I think the 4 weeks in bottles ones have been best. The initial Citra aroma from those was really strong, more so than Cascade, despite it having 2x as much Cascade as Citra!

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi Gerryjo

Try cutting back on your dry hopping and add at 10mins/flame out as what you have certainly seems to be hop haze.

... Hengoedbrewer hasn't mentioned it on this thread I don't think, but on a previous thread and in PMs to me he's mentioned that the haze in his beer has appeared/got worse when he's chilled it to serve ... would that happen if the problem was mostly hop-haze

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Gerryjo]

Hi Gerryjo
... Hengoedbrewer hasn't mentioned it on this thread I don't think, but on a previous thread and in PMs to me he's mentioned that the haze in his beer has appeared/got worse when he's chilled it to serve ... would that happen if the problem was mostly hop-haze

Cheers, PhilB

Certainly would as you'll find it with heavily hopped especially dry hopped beers. There's a great article here by stone brewing

 

[pms67]

Maybe it’s just me, ok, it is just me but clarity does not concern me one bit, I actually like a hazy beer

 

[chrisb8]

If chill haze is the main issue and in the OP they have said that they have a brewing fridge then surely adding a 'cold crash' and even finings like gelatine post fermentation would be a good idea? I use kettle finings, then a cold crash and gelatine finings after fermentation to get good repeatable results.

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi Gerryjo
I think we're talking about the same thing then, but that's definitely what I'd call chill-haze rather than hop-haze ... in fact that's what Stone Brewing call it in that article too, and even though they recognise that ...

Dry-hopped beers tend to form more haze, because the increased hopping adds more polyphenols to bond with the protein.

... in that whole article, looking at all sorts of options to improve the clarity of their IPA, they're not even considering changing their recipe with respect to the way they use their hops ... reducing the amounts of dry-hopping doesn't appear to be a consideration

I don't know if this is THE meaning of hop-haze, but what I meant was when you use Soooo much dry-hopping that it immediately forms a permanent haze in the beer ... haze which is there whether the beer is served warmer or cooler ... as with many of those NEIPAs (though often brewers of those will also exaggerate that by using protein rich adjuncts like oats/wheat) ... anyway that was the distinction I was trying to make

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Gerryjo]

Hi Gerryjo
I think we're talking about the same thing then, but that's definitely what I'd call chill-haze rather than hop-haze ... in fact that's what Stone Brewing call it in that article too, and even though they recognise that ... ... in that whole article, looking at all sorts of options to improve the clarity of their IPA, they're not even considering changing their recipe with respect to the way they use their hops ... reducing the amounts of dry-hopping doesn't appear to be a consideration

I don't know if this is THE meaning of hop-haze, but what I meant was when you use Soooo much dry-hopping that it immediately forms a permanent haze in the beer ... haze which is there whether the beer is served warmer or cooler ... as with many of those NEIPAs (though often brewers of those will also exaggerate that by using protein rich adjuncts like oats/wheat) ... anyway that was the distinction I was trying to make

Cheers, PhilB

Certainly an interesting read and one that many of us can relate to.Im sure that changing your malt type to a different brand or type to gain the same colour though may change the flavour could be worth a shot but personally if it tastes good it's grand. It's possible water pH could be an issue but then there is loads of factors which then becomes a process of elimination.

 

[foxy]

Perfect; thanks everyone as ever for the massively helpful replies. I am new to the auto siphon, it does have a sediment filter, when siphoning wort to FV does the end of the siphon need to go right to the bottom of the pot-ie into the trub- or should it sit above this a little bit?

If you put the siphon down to the bottom of the kettle you will be sucking in what you are trying to keep out. Put the tip just under the surface and keep it there going down as the level falls until you see bits starting to go into the siphon.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

Thank you all again for your responses- really interesting and gives me a lot of different things to try. I had another of the "cloudy if chilled" beers last night from the garage and straight out of the bottle it was a nice straw colour and reasonably clear, and tasted fine which is after all the main thing- I'll keep experimenting, I have some finings now as I said so that's one thing, I do have a brew fridge, can consider more late and less dry hops...so the means to try out some of the great suggestions here. Hopefully I will come up with a decent balance between clarity and taste eventually. And if at the end of the day I can only have taste- that'll do me!

 

[chthon]

I have seen that most siphons have actually an indication on the packaging that indicate up to which temperature they can be used, and most don't go over 60° C. Additionally, most have a PVC tube which is also not usable above 60° C due to leaking of plastic chemicals.

 

[chuffer]

I have seen that most siphons have actually an indication on the packaging that indicate up to which temperature they can be used, and most don't go over 60° C. Additionally, most have a PVC tube which is also not usable above 60° C due to leaking of plastic chemicals.

Yes, this very issue has now had me spooked and so I've had to order some high temp tubing from Advanced Fluid Solutions Ltd in preparation for the next time I attempt to transfer the post boil wort to the jerry can.....as for the current batch that's in the brew fridge, if my brew is full of toxic plasto chemicals, I'll let you know how it tastes and if my brain subsequently melts following consumption

 

[Thatscold]

Silicone tubing is what you want, I think it’s rated up to 220c

 

[foxy]

Thank you all again for your responses- really interesting and gives me a lot of different things to try. I had another of the "cloudy if chilled" beers last night from the garage and straight out of the bottle it was a nice straw colour and reasonably clear, and tasted fine which is after all the main thing- I'll keep experimenting, I have some finings now as I said so that's one thing, I do have a brew fridge, can consider more late and less dry hops...so the means to try out some of the great suggestions here. Hopefully I will come up with a decent balance between clarity and taste eventually. And if at the end of the day I can only have taste- that'll do me!

If you are really interested in turning out some great beers you will. It does seem daunting starting out with so much to learn, but plenty of reading, and some disappointments, and taking one step at a time.
Read and understand the importance of pH, what is happening in the mash and the boil and careful sparging will get you clear beers without finings, unless of course you have a poor floculating yeast.

I did a brew today, leave the hop and break material in the kettle.
You will forfeit some wort to the kettle.

Even though it looks clear there will be some cold break in the fermenter, which the yeast will use.

Clear beer into the fermenter equals clear beer into the bottle and the glass, without any off flavours.

Keep learning and happy brewing.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

Cheers Foxy. Just as I like researching pretty much anything brewing related; I had got a local water report, which is a foreign language to me- I am not too concerned with water treatment for now, walk before running- I do know I live in a soft water area though, which I think is better for pales? (I actually always use bottled water anyway for strike and mash). But something I can look into when I know the AG basics a bit more.

I think I'm going to cold crash this latest batch as well, see if that makes a difference. Try as many variables as I can.