new brewer in need of some advice!!

[stixy]

Hi guys, i would very much like a little advice as i am new to the art of homebrewing and may have made a grave error!.

I have recently brought a starter kit as i want to get a few brews under my belt before i move to AG.

Basicly i started the process on sunday afternoon although very stupidly i left it to ferment in the shead with no heat, I did realise this was silly as the process requires temps of about 20 degrees C so i moved it into the house, but by this time 24 hours had passed.

I then checked it again 24 hours later and the yeast looked like it had started its magic i.e a foam head and some crust had developed.
The problem is ive head the lag time should not exceed 24 hours where as mine was more like 48!

Do you guys think this will be ok as ive head it can lead to contamination/ over oxidiation?
Also it has produced a rather strong smell, hard to describe but maybe like an "off" smell if this makes sence although i have heard that fermenting beer can produce a wide varierty of smells some not all that nice! im just wondering if you think this is normal and still should produce a good batch?

i would be very grateful with your input guys, thanks,
p.s sorry about the essay.

Mark.

 

[the_duck]

Stick with it I say, if it's started fermenting it'll probably be fine.

 

[stixy]

thanks for the quick reply matey

yea is was gunna leave it for a couple more days and see how it gets on, but would prehaps like to know how to tell if it already ruined!!

im most likey worried over nothing but as i havent done this before its hard to tell if its going right or wrong lol but ones ive got a couple of brews under my belt ill be fine im sure.

Another question for you all if you dont mind! err ive heard conflicting views on the secondary ferminting process,
is it better and safer to keep it in the FV its in or should i transfer to the keg i have.
The only thing is i have a tube to syphon with but no pump so will have to use the "suck" method with could be very bad in terms of risk of contamination

however my FV doesnt have an air lock so not sure this would be suitable to use, HELP please!!!!

 

[Parva]

I keep all my brews in the FV for 10 days and just keg straight from it. I've only done secondary once and whilst it turned out ok it wasn't any brighter than what I manage with just the one stage fermentation (which to be honest is usually crystal clear anyway) and I've since decided that the added risk of oxidation or infection is too great. Also, my current fermenting brew is sat in a 10g plastic bucket with a lid on snapped slightly open, never had a problem leaving a brew in it for 10 days.

 

[stixy]

lovely thanks for that but just out of intrest how long from start to finish is it left in the FV as the initial stages takes about 5days lets say then ive heard vairying accounts of the secondary stage in that it can be sat there for 2weeks or more!

What im trying to say is that once the primary stage is complete do you add the sugar and leave it for a further 10days with the lid slightly snapped off and then drink it?

 

[EskiBrew]

lovely thanks for that but just out of intrest how long from start to finish is it left in the FV as the initial stages takes about 5days lets say then ive heard vairying accounts of the secondary stage in that it can be sat there for 2weeks or more!

What im trying to say is that once the primary stage is complete do you add the sugar and leave it for a further 10days with the lid slightly snapped off and then drink it?

You don't really need a secondary stage - especially if you are just starting out, it is not worth the extra risk of contamination - but it will benefit from a maturing stage of a few weeks once in the keg or bottles.

Leave maybe 7 to 10 days in the primary, measure the SG and if it is reasonably low then syphon to either keg or bottles. If you want to bottle condition then you will need to prime the bottles with a small amount of sugar (don't overprime unless you want bottle bombs :shock: ). Similarly if you do not intend injecting gas into a keg then you will need to prime the keg with a small amount of sugar.

A note about syphoning - to avoid sucking on the tube, simply fill the sanitised tube with water from the tap and then put your thumb over the outlet end - next, quickly dunk the open end into the fermenter - lower the end that has your thumb on below the level of the beer and then release your thumb - syphon will start (providing you didn't let air into the tube) without having to suck - your mouth is full of bacteria :sick:

Edit - Your brew sounds fine by the way - the cold temps outside probably reduced the liklihood of a wild yeast taking hold. It's true that the yeast can produce some unpleasant smells during fermentation.

 

[stixy]

thanks thats been a real help, especially the part about the syphoning.

Just one more question i think! you say there is not much need for the secondary fementation stage as its not worth the extra risk of contamination which is very understandable, but cant this stage be used to add flavorings/additives and therefore improve the final product and be proformed in the primary FV??
However leaving the old yeast and other bits finished from the first stage may pose just the same risk of contamination as moving it to a second FV ive been told, is this true?

Also would you say its best to leave it in the warm in the kegg for a week and then move it to a colder place for a week or so before drinking and in general is it true the longerthe better in terms of time left before drinking?
as i have heard/read(some posts on here included!)that after a couple of weeks in the kegg it can lose some of its flavor/condition.

thanks for all your help once again everyone its much appricated.

 

[Vossy1]

but cant this stage be used to add flavorings/additives and therefore improve the final product and be proformed in the primary FV??

The only additives you should be adding to a beer after primary fermentation, should be finings, and possibly hops (if dry hopping). The finings can be added to the primary or keg and dry hopping should really be done in the keg.

However leaving the old yeast and other bits finished from the first stage may pose just the same risk of contamination as moving it to a second FV ive been told, is this true?

The main risk with leaving beer on spent yeast is that the yeast will start to degrade, and off flavours may be imparted to the beer as a result. Spent yeast can flavour contaminate but it can't cause infection.

Also would you say its best to leave it in the warm in the kegg for a week and then move it to a colder place for a week or so before drinking and in general is it true the longerthe better in terms of time left before drinking?

Yes.

as i have heard/read(some posts on here included!)that after a couple of weeks in the kegg it can lose some of its flavor/condition.

Beer is a living entity and it depends on your brewing technique, as to how long it will remain in peak condition.
Certain beers benefit from months of maturation, however the 'average beer' is probably best consumed via a simple rule.
Allow 1 week of maturation for every 10 gravity points of the original OG, ie, a beer of 1.040 OG (40 points) would benefit from 4 weeks maturation before being consumed :drink:

 

[stixy]

ahh lovely cheers ill take that on board i suppose the more i do the more used to the practices i become and the more experimenting i can do!
any chance you could give me a run done on dry kegging?? as in the discussions on here reguarding kegg vs bottle, this has been mentioned and seems a benifical thing to do.

 

[Vossy1]

any chance you could give me a run done on dry kegging?? as in the discussions on here reguarding kegg vs bottle, this has been mentioned and seems a benifical thing to do.

Unfortunately stixy, dry hopping is something I've not done yet, so I'll have to pass on that one
It puts the fear of god up me, risking losing a keg due to dry hopping...but then I am paranoid.
Hopefully one of our dry hopping bods will be along to help, or you could start a seperate thread and see who responds :thumb:

Personally from my own experince, bottles keep a sharper taste for longer, which I like, but kegs mellow a lot faster, giving a 'pub' type cask ale taste.

It's really up to you as to what you prefer. I prefer the bottled taste, but can't be bothered bottling, so everything gets kegged...that is unless I do something really special, in which case I will bottle a few.

 

[A T]

I also prefer bottles but kegging is so easy, i dry hop quite a bit in the keg and from what i've seen everybody has a different way to do it and a different amount hops to add. I've settled on about 30g per keg, i use a stainless steel tea ball purchased on e bay (very cheap) i boil the empty ball in a kettle of water to sterilise it, put my hops in it and put it in the keg when i'm filling it. I leave the ball there til the keg is finished. Like i said everybody does it different and you'll refine the technique to suit your own preference.

 

[MEB]

I've never dry hopped. Can't be bothered really. I much prefer the taste of a bottle conditioned beer to the beer from my kegs. But kegging 38L tonight will take me about an hour. Plus bottling half a dozen 750ml bottles. Bottling 45L would take ME all evening.

I leave my brews in the FV for a minimun of 10 days. I check the sg on day 5 and ten. Usually it's there or thereabouts by day ten but sometimes it's not. My last brew has been in the FV since 12th Jan and it's just finished. The first 5 days of the fermenting process was done open top as the yeast head kept pouring out through the airlock with a lid on. :evil: Yeast :evil: so i let it open ferment. Once the initial fermenting was over(7 days) i placed a lid back on top. This wasn't a 'normal' brew though-i'm just giving you an example. Different brews will ferment differently.
The powerfull smell you got once your brew had started is the result of the yeasties doing their 'thang'. :party: I find that smell strangely nice and comforting.

I think that if you sterilise everything to death :thumb: and always work in an as clean environment as you can manage you should(hopefully) be ok.

However leaving the old yeast and other bits finished from the first stage may pose just the same risk of contamination as moving it to a second FV ive been told, is this true?

As someone has already said-NO. I'm just saying it again-NO. Contamination doesn't come from spent yeast or trub. :thumb: off flavours may occur but not contamination.

As for questions mate-fire away :thumb: that's what this forum is here for. We do love seeing a few pic's though-pic's are good. We love brewing and talk about it for hours whilst drinking the results of our toil :party: You'll find a wealth of knowledge within the forum members. Especially the regulars.

Glad to have you on board :thumb:


Welcome to the wonderful world of homebrewing :drink:

NB-slight overuse of emoticons there.

 

[stixy]

thanks very much guys lol in that case i do have a few more questions!

Firstly when its mentioned that its kept in the FV for 10 days ish is this once the initial process has slowed down i.e it could be there for 16days or more?

Secondly when i come to make my next brew using the ready made stuff! would you recomend boiling it first before adding it to the FV and if so how long for. was thinking this would be good practice for when i come to AG.
With this also is it advisible to "wake up" the yeast before adding it, in luke warm water?

Thirdly would priming the kegg before the beer is added be enough to maintain the required CO2 levels or should i invest in the CO2 bulbs and should the sugar be heated or mixed with water before its added??

Thanks once again for all your help and replys they really are helpful
i feel it better in a way talking to people rather than getting all my info from books although they are very useful too.

 

[the_duck]

Firstly when its mentioned that its kept in the FV for 10 days ish is this once the initial process has slowed down i.e it could be there for 16days or more?

10 days from pitching the yeast.

Secondly when i come to make my next brew using the ready made stuff! would you recomend boiling it first before adding it to the FV and if so how long for. was thinking this would be good practice for when i come to AG.

The extract has already been boiled so it should be ok, I think some people boil it if they're adding hops to the extract.

With this also is it advisible to "wake up" the yeast before adding it, in luke warm water?

I've seen plenty of people say it's best to hydrate the dry yeast before hand, and plenty of people say that there's no need, i think it's personal preference.

Thirdly would priming the kegg before the beer is added be enough to maintain the required CO2 levels or should i invest in the CO2 bulbs and should the sugar be heated or mixed with water before its added??

I've only used kegs twice so I'm not sure about the best way to pressurize them myself, though both times I've kegged stuff I've added the priming sugar with the beer as it goes into the keg.
Though I plan to get some gas bulbs as the first time the keg has no pressure after two pints and the other keg isn't ready to drink yet so i don't know.

 

[A T]

I would definitely advise to get some way of gassing the keg. I don't prime my kegs but i can't see how you could generate enough gas to serve the whole keg. 10 days is usually plenty but you can monitor the progress with a hydrometer, when you get the same reading twice over a 24 hour period and it's low enough it's ready to keg. I left my last brew in the FV for 19 days with no problems but it's not advisable to get into bad habits.

 

[EskiBrew]

i can't see how you could generate enough gas to serve the whole keg.

You might just about if you only had say a few pints a week leaving time in between for more CO2 to be produced but that's no fun - the main thing to avoid is air being sucked back into the keg through the tap :nono: so pressurising the keg is best.

 

[the_duck]

the main thing to avoid is air being sucked back into the keg through the tap :nono: so pressurising the keg is best.

that's what happened to my first keg.

when i was sanitising it, i had it sat in the bath and i tipped it onto it's side so the solution would have made contact with all of the keg, but i slipped and the keg dropped the last few inches, somehow this caused my lid to crack and i had to dash off to the homebrew store to get a replacement.

the only lids he had were ones with only a 'safety valve', which was actually just a lid with what looks like a rubber bung pushed into a hold in the middle of the lid, i'm assuming that if the pressure gets too great then the bung pops out, hopefully not taking someones eye with it.

It all ended ok though, the day after we had a bbq for our house warming about about 25pints of the stuff got drank before it went off.

 

[stixy]

ok good ill def keep an eye on this which means im gunna buy a CO2 bulb and the thingy! to fit it, are all keggs standard in that one bulb and adaptor fits all?

 

[stixy]

also guys how much of a different proccess (apart from fermenting temp) is brewing larger? not much of a lager drinker but thought id give it a go, why not a!!!
Cheers guys.

 

[the_duck]

Never done one myself, all I know is that the yeast ferments at lower temps (around 11c?) so it'll take longer.

someone on here has just posted a recipe for lager, have a look for tips!