NEIPA hints and tips

[Surfingobo]

I wouldn't use the one that I put on the bikes tyres and as far as I can tell co2 is just co2. Not sure how you would make it food grade? Cheers surfingobo definitely going to give it a try I need more cartridges for the bike anyway. How many do you use?

I do 8L batches and one canister (8gram I think) is about half used

 

[grooves]

The small canisters will be food grade. Some of the larger bottles may have been reused with other contents which makes them non food grade, but the CO2 contents will be the same

 

[BradleyW]

To be honest it sounded like a tall story really, especially when the brewfirm ones are way more expensive than ones for a bike. I'll give it a whirl coz I've got loads of them

 

[Lawrence R]

Hi, only about 5 brews into my Homebrew career and am tackling my first NEIPA this weekend. Was doing some planning and research this evening in preparation and there seems to be some additional risk or sensitivity with oxidation with this beer style. Is this really something I need to take more care and attention over and above normal brews? Under normal circumstances I'm pretty careful and not really sure what more I can do to prevent oxidation. I've been so paranoid about oxidation so far that I've been bottling straight from the primary fermentation vessel (had pretty clear beers coincidentally) to avoid any risk of oxidation in transferring to a racking vessel and not had an issue with oxidation so far, so will I get away with it with an NEIPA or will I die? I usually bottle condition for nominal 2 weeks or so then it doesn't last long by the time I've distributed around friends so can't imagine any will get much past 4 weeks after bottling before its all drunk. Any hints and tips will be much appreciated. Thanks.

Hi
i have brewed two batches of NEIPA now and until bottling the second was not aware of the general feeling that oxidation is such a potential problem. I ferment in a demijohn and transferred to a wide neck plastic fermenter for dry hopping. I'm normally careful about gently racking and not splashing and using a bottling wand when bottling. I don’t have the facility for closed transfer, and still bottle and bottle condition. If I had read everyone’s concerns before trying brewing this beer I don’t think I would have bothered trying The results were excellent and fully drinkable a month after bottling. I may just have been v lucky Of course.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Thanks for advice so far. my main concern was around all the advice about being wary of oxidation but I'm pretty sure it will be drunk quickly enough for that not to be an issue though we will take as much care as we can when bottling. Did the brew last weekend and a few things didn't go to plan:-
1. missed OG by quite a bit - target was 1.072 achieved 1.055 after a 60 minute mash. Should I have let the mash go on until we got closer to the target gravity? Though I didn't get a stuck mash it was very slow so not sure if that was an issue - didn't use rice hulls, maybe I should have. Always been pretty bob on with OG with previous brews so not sure why we didn't achieve target gravity.
2. school boy error and let my eye off the ball during boil and got a boil over and lost about 2 litres of final wort volume. Hope this wont affect the final result. Didn't do anything, just accepted the lower final batch volume.
3. It seems to have finished fermenting already...beat the target FG by about 7 points (target was 1.014, but we've achieved 1.009). Been stable for about 36 hours now. So 3 day-ish ferment when we were expecting at least 5 days. Would the reduced volume mean a faster ferment as we didn't reduce the amount of yeast we pitched, so effectively over-pitched with yeast? yeast was 1 packet of Classic British Ale CL-0170 dried. Added yeast nutrient in the boil.

Getting ready to dry hop after Christmas Day. Recipe calls for a 5 day dry hop.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I've done two NEIPA's, first time I bottled from a bucket, 2nd time I bottled from the fermenter (because of a previous bottling bucket infection) I didn't change my practice with either of them and they have been two of the best i've done which is ironic as it isn't a style which I particularly enjoy.

I realise it's too late but I dry hopped really early, day 2 I think at active fermentation, it apparently helps with the haze. I then dry hopped again at day 10 or something.

 

[IrishH]

My last brew was a dialed down version of Brewdog vs Cloudwater NEIPA - I reformulated it to 5% with same bitterness / gravity ratio. It was the best beer I made this year by far. I did do a CO2 pressurised transfer to the keg to avoid oxidation - if you are bottle conditioning I wouldn't sweat it to much the live yeast should take care of the oxygen. I'd just fill a bit closer to the top than usual - although I doubt it makes much difference. Necking it all in a month is probably the best approach.

Hi Grooves, do you mind me asking how the brew day went? I have bought the ingredients (went off the BD website) but it doesnt give much detail in the way of timings and hop additions. Im new to AG so not sure when to add etc? Thanks!

 

[grooves]

I followed the info in the DIY DOG pdf. So I doughed in @68c for a 75 min step, and then mashed out @77c for 15mins. No hop additions in the boil. Then after a 60 min boil - when the temp was less than 85c I added 33g Mosaic and let it steep for 30mins then I cooled and transferred to the FV and pitched the yeast and fermented at 18c - then later when fermentation had finished I crash cooled and dry hopped with 83g Citra and 83g Mosaic - for 3 days only. My notes are a bit sketchy here though so could have been a bit longer. Then I kegged using a closed transfer.

 

[roboto]

Hi Grooves, do you mind me asking how the brew day went? I have bought the ingredients (went off the BD website) but it doesnt give much detail in the way of timings and hop additions. Im new to AG so not sure when to add etc? Thanks!

I'm not Grooves but I've also tried following the BD-Cloudwater recipe, I've probably done it about 5 or 6 times and each time my schedule has been slightly different. But importantly each time has been good! I think it can be quite forgiving.

I've done 75 and 30 minute boils, I've tried no-chilling the wort, once I was running low on Citra and Mosaic so bittered with Fuggles. None of these made a huge difference.

The best I think was where I double dry hopped, once at high krausen (approx 3 days after pitching dry yeast) and once 2 days before bottling.

Be careful bottling (I go straight from the fermenter with a bottling wand) and you'll be alright.

Usually needs a week or carb up and mellow out, but after 4 weeks it's starting to settle out and lose the haze & aroma.

Good luck!

 

[IrishH]

Thank you both, much appreciated! @roboto I think I will bottle some but keg the majority. It shouldn't make any difference if I only have 10lLin my 19L will it?

I followed the info in the DIY DOG pdf. So I doughed in @68c for a 75 min step, and then mashed out @77c for 15mins. No hop additions in the boil. Then after a 60 min boil - when the temp was less than 85c I added 33g Mosaic and let it steep for 30mins then I cooled and transferred to the FV and pitched the yeast and fermented at 18c - then later when fermentation had finished I crash cooled and dry hopped with 83g Citra and 83g Mosaic - for 3 days only. My notes are a bit sketchy here though so could have been a bit longer. Then I kegged using a closed transfer.

That sounds similar to what I was looking at doing also. I wont have a closed transfer but hoping for the best. I got the liquid vermont yeast as per the BD site so hoping it will make the difference!

 

[grooves]

I used WLP067 Coastal Haze Blend as it was the only NEIPA style yeast MM had in stock when I ordered. I think liquid yeasts make a difference even when good dry alternatives are available. I still make plenty of beers with dry yeast though, as it's sometimes more convenient.

This beer made it onto the rebrew list - so I hope you get similar results.

 

[IrishH]

I used WLP067 Coastal Haze Blend as it was the only NEIPA style yeast MM had in stock when I ordered. I think liquid yeasts make a difference even when good dry alternatives are available. I still make plenty of beers with dry yeast though, as it's sometimes more convenient.

This beer made it onto the rebrew list - so I hope you get similar results.

This is my first time using a liquid yeast, just pitch as per normal? I'm going to be kegging for the first time so excited/scared! haha!

 

[grooves]

Yep just aerate and sling it in.

I always make a starter to make sure there's plenty of yeast (viability) and it ready to go from the start (vitality) but for ales it's mostly not really needed, lagers generally benefit from multiple packs or a starter.

 

[Buffers brewery]

I find a good way of excluding oxygen from bottles is to use PET bottles. Fill as normal to the top with the wand. Remove wand which creates a bit of head-space. Squeeze the bottle to bring the beer up to the rim and fit cap and seal. As the beer carbonates CO2 re-inflates the bottle with minimal O2 exposure.

 

[IrishH]

Yep just aerate and sling it in.

I always make a starter to make sure there's plenty of yeast (viability) and it ready to go from the start (vitality) but for ales it's mostly not really needed, lagers generally benefit from multiple packs or a starter.

I have to admit i have no idea how you would do the second part! How do you make a starter? I just have the one wee vial I got online. I have the Vermont ale from Yeast Bay. TIA!

 

[moto748]

Following this with interest. I have always bottled my beer in glass bottles and primed with sugar with no problems really, but then again I have not attempted this type of beer, just English bitters and stout mostly.

Maybe, as suggested, if I did try a NEIPA, I'd be better going with PET bottles. But thus far, as least, I've never had issues with oxidation. I probably need to accept that my low-tech methods are not going to be suitable to every type of beer. Which is fair enough, really.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I have to admit i have no idea how you would do the second part! How do you make a starter? I just have the one wee vial I got online. I have the Vermont ale from Yeast Bay. TIA!

Make a litre of 1.040 using DME or LME wort 2 or 3 days before your brew. Pitch yeast into that.

Bear in mind that you will get CO2 given off as it's just a mini brew. I use a Lakeland airlock jar but the top dogs have magnetic stir plates and big flasks! I just shake mine regularly to get rid of CO2 then let it settle a good few hours before you plan to pitch it.

Edit, 100g of DME in 1 litre of water for that, or 120g LME

 

[IrishH]

Following this with interest. I have always bottled my beer in glass bottles and primed with sugar with no problems really, but then again I have not attempted this type of beer, just English bitters and stout mostly.

Maybe, as suggested, if I did try a NEIPA, I'd be better going with PET bottles. But thus far, as least, I've never had issues with oxidation. I probably need to accept that my low-tech methods are not going to be suitable to every type of beer. Which is fair enough, really.

Yes I'm the same, there's only so far I can get with what I have. I'm going to keg this one (first time doing so) and I added on the beer gun (so can purge with co2) and will bottle a few to give away. So far so good, I brewed Saturday and noticed my yeast was out of date so have a second vial coming!

 

[Clint]

So in my simple understanding...
NEIPA...hazy..from lots of flaked adjuncts,oats mainly it seems,but what else? Also hazy from the large amounts of hops..
Water adjusted for hops and mouth feel? But the enemy is oxygenation?
What causes/ enables oxygenation?
Can this style be successful without closed transfer?
What's a basic starting point regarding grain bill?
Thanks

 

[roboto]

NEIPA...hazy..from lots of flaked adjuncts,oats mainly it seems,but what else? Also hazy from the large amounts of hops..

Pretty much. 10-20% oats or oat malt is fairly typical. Some people swear that adding a dry hop at 'high krausen' or at the peak of active fermenting aids flavour development and improves haze.

Water adjusted for hops and mouth feel?

Yes and no, not essential but again some people swear by their specific chloride to approve ratio, it can get very technical but you can also make a good NEIPA without focusing on water treatment (your water depending!)

But the enemy is oxygenation?
What causes/ enables oxygenation?
Can this style be successful without closed transfer?

Yup, oxidation of hop material can ruin both the bright orange appearance typical of the style, and people often describe the oxidised flavour as 'cardboard'.

I've had good success by bottling (flip tops) straight from primary, with a wand, and being careful to avoid unnecessary splashing/mixing etc.
Given the style I typically drink those bottles between 7 and 28 days from bottling, and I currently brew on a 2 gallon scale. Any bottles older than that tend to lose aroma and haze, and drink more like an IPA (note, these beers are not oxidised, just they lose the pop of a freshly brewed NEIPA).


As for a grain bill, from memory my knock off Hazy Jane (originally from Brewdogs DIY-dog PDF) is 2.5kgs Maris Otter, 300g porridge oats, mash and boil to 9L final volume, 30 IBUs from whirlpool, dry hop with 40g of Citra and 40g Mosaic 3 days before bottling.
My water is hard and this doesn't seem to ruin the beer.