National Homebrew Competition

[Stu's Brews]

Galaxy is fine in an American IPA, so I doubt it will be out of style.

One of the judges put 'hop profile not suitable' so I guess there's some interpretation in that.

It was Citra, Nelson Sauvin and Galaxy but with the latter dominating the later additions. It was a bit of a passion fruit bomb so I can see why they might say that.

I liked it though so will probably brew again in the future but taking on board some of the other comments and possibly backing off on the Galaxy a touch.

 

[JockyBrewer]

One of the judges put 'hop profile not suitable' so I guess there's some interpretation in that.

It was Citra, Nelson Sauvin and Galaxy but with the latter dominating the later additions. It was a bit of a passion fruit bomb so I can see why they might say that.

I liked it though so will probably brew again in the future but taking on board some of the other comments and possibly backing off on the Galaxy a touch.

Odd. Tropical/stone fruit is quite allowable in American IPA.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I think the issue with those tick boxes (and sometimes with the written sheets) is that sometimes the brewer isn’t clear whether it’s a good point or a bad point, or maybe just an observation.

It’s worth reading the scoresheet alongside a copy of the judging guide for the style. They should ideally say where something is out of style, but that’s not always the case.

I will also admit that once you get above 35ish it gets much harder to really describe how to improve the beer. Everything can be right for style, but the elements don’t come together as a cohesive whole.

 

[Braufather]

One thing I noticed on my scores is the judges noted they couldn’t drink a pint of it which is quite harsh given it’s in the low 30s.

Personally with that beer i feel it’s after the second or third pint it really shines!

 

[Braumeister]

One thing I noticed on my scores is the judges noted they couldn’t drink a pint of it which is quite harsh given it’s in the low 30s.

Personally with that beer i feel it’s after the second or third pint it really shines!

Haha agree, only one of mine said they’d drink a pint of it, and the chap who said he’d drink the sample gave it 42. Maybe he doesn’t like weissbier that much.

Quite surprising really though considering I’d pretty much drink a pint of anything

 

[nickjdavis]

This is the problem with the tickbox/slider scoresheets that aren’t fully written. For some reason some judges will tick the boxes but not fill in the written bit, so the entrant gets less feedback than normal.

Must admit...it was the first time I'd judged with the tickbox style sheet (although I was aware of their existence) and it did take me a couple of beers before I'd got the hang of it....initially focused on ticking the appropriate boxes (and as you know...there are plenty of them all over the sheet) and perhaps not enough on writing feedback....but once I'd got used to what all the boxes were I could almost go through them on autopliolt and focus on writing what I could in the limited space left.

 

[dave_77]

My American pale scored 30pts..both said no faults and a balanced beer. One judge ticked low aroma and low medium hop flavour. The other judge ticked high hop aroma and medium high flavour. Low hop aroma judge scored 27pts for a beer balanced beer with no faults with hopping not to their taste. Second judge same comments regarding balance and faults but thought it was hoppy scored 30pts . Minimal notes other than balanced drinkable beer with no faults. Not hoppy enough to be special

 

[Alastair70]

My American pale scored 30pts..both said no faults and a balanced beer. One judge ticked low aroma and low medium hop flavour. The other judge ticked high hop aroma and medium high flavour. Low hop aroma judge scored 27pts for a beer balanced beer with no faults with hopping not to their taste. Second judge same comments regarding balance and faults but thought it was hoppy scored 30pts . Minimal notes other than balanced drinkable beer with no faults. Not hoppy enough to be special

That’s harsh, and the inconsistencies between judges comments are significant. And the scores seem much lower than the comments justify.

 

[Braumeister]

My American pale scored 30pts..both said no faults and a balanced beer. One judge ticked low aroma and low medium hop flavour. The other judge ticked high hop aroma and medium high flavour. Low hop aroma judge scored 27pts for a beer balanced beer with no faults with hopping not to their taste. Second judge same comments regarding balance and faults but thought it was hoppy scored 30pts . Minimal notes other than balanced drinkable beer with no faults. Not hoppy enough to be special

Yes that’s got to be a bit confusing. I must admit I don’t think it would be easy to be a judge though, I’d probably be useless.

Both my feedbacks had a lot of comments and the scores in each section were basically identical, so I think these judges are pretty amazing. Both detected very slight acetaldehyde, their palettes must be very finely tuned!

Only one oddity was one said the head disappeared quickly, other said it remained for a long time. In the ones I’ve tried the head retention was great, so who knows.

 

[Stu's Brews]

My American pale scored 30pts..both said no faults and a balanced beer. One judge ticked low aroma and low medium hop flavour. The other judge ticked high hop aroma and medium high flavour. Low hop aroma judge scored 27pts for a beer balanced beer with no faults with hopping not to their taste. Second judge same comments regarding balance and faults but thought it was hoppy scored 30pts . Minimal notes other than balanced drinkable beer with no faults. Not hoppy enough to be special

Was that on the American IPA table (table 2)?

I had a 29, 25 split for my beer which is quite wide.

 

[dave_77]

Was that on the American IPA table (table 2)?

I had a 29, 25 split for my beer which is quite wide.

I don't think so, I think there was 22 pale ales so they were all on one I think. Big split also.

 

[nickjdavis]

Was that on the American IPA table (table 2)?

I had a 29, 25 split for my beer which is quite wide.

No its not. Honestly.

A point difference on each feedback category (aroma, appearance, flavour, mouthfeel, overall) will immediately give 5 points difference....yet you probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if you saw a 1 point difference in each category in isolation.

Usually a pair of "trained" judges are expected to be, at worst, no more than 7 points apart from each other. It does happen....but it is quite rare....I think yesterday I had one example where I judged a beer maybe 6 points worse than my colleague. (It was quite a challenging beer in a style that was very open to interpretation that allowed the brewer a wide margin of latitude to interpret the style).

 

[Stu's Brews]

No its not. Honestly.

A point difference on each feedback category (aroma, appearance, flavour, mouthfeel, overall) will immediately give 5 points difference....yet you probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if you saw a 1 point difference in each category in isolation.

Usually a pair of "trained" judges are expected to be, at worst, no more than 7 points apart from each other. It does happen....but it is quite rare....I think yesterday I had one example where I judged a beer maybe 6 points worse than my colleague. (It was quite a challenging beer in a style that was very open to interpretation that allowed the brewer a wide margin of latitude to interpret the style).

Fair enough, normally I've always had scores within a point of each other so this one was a bit of an outlier hence the surprise at the spread.

 

[DocAnna]

Ok I've read my feedback and reckon I agree with most of it. Ironically I don't think it was my best lager as I was pushed for time making it, and realistically I'd prefer at least 2 months to make a decent lager. The Gose scored better at 39 , than the lager but didn't rank which is testimony to the high quality of the entries. To be fair, a Clementine and passion fruit gose, with Himalayan pink salt, and dry hopped with Citra... doesn't nicely fit a category, but I really appreciate the critical feedback. So judges whoever you are, thank you, your time and consideration is really appreciated.

Ok that's the good bit .. but grrrr I knew about the mistakes in the lager and grrr.. know I can do better. This hobby is a both rewarding and a hard taskmaster! One of the things I really value is it is my thing, just me, I am accountable for what I produce, just me and the choices I make. That's both hard but so rewarding as it is so different from the day job, and makes me feel I can keep getting a wee bit better. I am full of admiration for so many of the brewers on this forum, the expertise, ingenuity, artistry and just plain hard graft. Cheers to you all .

 

[nickjdavis]

Ok I've read my feedback and reckon I agree with most of it. Ironically I don't think it was my best lager as I was pushed for time making it, and realistically I'd prefer at least 2 months to make a decent lager. The Gose scored better at 39 , than the lager but didn't rank which is testimony to the high quality of the entries. To be fair, a Clementine and passion fruit gose, with Himalayan pink salt, and dry hopped with Citra... doesn't nicely fit a category, but I really appreciate the critical feedback. So judges whoever you are, thank you, your time and consideration is really appreciated.

l .

If I'm not mistaken it was myself and my mate Keith who judged your Clementine and Passion Fruit Gose....happy to share further thoughts with you fi you can share your scoresheet via e-mail with me (assuming I am right in my opening statement!!).

Between 2 pairs of judges we had about 20/21 Fruit and Spice beers to get through. Its a challenging category and to do 10/11 of them takes its toll on ones palate, we should have had 3 pairs of judges...6 or 7 beers each wouldn't then have been too bad....luckily we left a beer with Pepperoni, Oregano, Thyme, Tomato, Jalapenos and Dried Chipotle Peppers until the very end.

The one thing that struck me with many of the Fruit and Spiced beers was the lack of attention to ensuring the base beer was recognisable in its own right, and wasn't just a carrier for whatever fruits and spices were thrown at it.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Must admit...it was the first time I'd judged with the tickbox style sheet (although I was aware of their existence) and it did take me a couple of beers before I'd got the hang of it....initially focused on ticking the appropriate boxes (and as you know...there are plenty of them all over the sheet) and perhaps not enough on writing feedback....but once I'd got used to what all the boxes were I could almost go through them on autopliolt and focus on writing what I could in the limited space left.

I think that’s the important thing as a judge - keep in mind what you think the brewer needs to hear from you to understand why you have scored it as you have, and how to improve it.

I think really that’s all that the competitors could ever want, and I’m always happy when competitors email me to discuss the feedback further.

 

[Braumeister]

luckily we left a beer with Pepperoni, Oregano, Thyme, Tomato, Jalapenos and Dried Chipotle Peppers until the very end.

 

[SMP Brewery]

Pepperoni, Oregano, Thyme, Tomato, Jalapenos and Dried Chipotle Peppers until the very end.

Dry hopped with pizza?

 

[RichardM]

No its not. Honestly.

A point difference on each feedback category (aroma, appearance, flavour, mouthfeel, overall) will immediately give 5 points difference....yet you probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if you saw a 1 point difference in each category in isolation.

Usually a pair of "trained" judges are expected to be, at worst, no more than 7 points apart from each other. It does happen....but it is quite rare....I think yesterday I had one example where I judged a beer maybe 6 points worse than my colleague. (It was quite a challenging beer in a style that was very open to interpretation that allowed the brewer a wide margin of latitude to interpret the style).

If the judges come up with wildly different scores they will discuss it and usually amend their thinking to come closer.
With regards to judge's comments, they are encouraged to leave constructive comments about how you could improve the beer.

I am speaking as a volunteer steward at a few competitions. Being a steward is a great way to learn. You get to hear the judges discussions and taste many of the beers. In return you have to fetch and carry the beers and keep track of the score sheets.

 

[Deadhead]

Ok I've read my feedback and reckon I agree with most of it. Ironically I don't think it was my best lager as I was pushed for time making it, and realistically I'd prefer at least 2 months to make a decent lager.

Ok that's the good bit .. but grrrr I knew about the mistakes in the lager and grrr.. know I can do better.

Aww, man, it sounds like you're being really hard on yourself. Don't be disheartened! This was a lager that you weren't even sure if you were going to enter it at all - and yet you pulled out a bronze medal out of tough competition! That's a huge win to me!