My NEIPA #2

[tobiasbeecher]

Morning All,

I brewed my second attempt at a BIAB NEIPA yesterday and was wondering if anyone could pick holes in my method / procedure?

Title: NEIPA attempt #2
Brew Method: BIAB
Boil Time: 45 min
Batch Size: 5 L (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 L
No Sparge

FERMENTABLES:
500 g - United Kingdom - Golden Promise
450 g - United Kingdom - Crisp Pale Ale Malt
50 g - United Kingdom - Pale Crystal Malt
250 g - Flaked Oats (20%)

HOPS:
20 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, Use: Flame out (then left them in)
15 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, Use: When pitching yeast
20 g - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, Use: Day 1
20 g - Mosiac, Type: Pellet, Use: Day 3

MASH GUIDELINES:
Temp: 66-71 C (150-160 F), Time: 45 min

WATER TREATMENT (for the final 5L):
Tesco Ashbeck Mineral Water
2.8ml CRS/AMS
2.0g DLS

YEAST:
WLP007
Starter: Yes

I used WLP007 as I harvested and cleaned it from my last brew. It was actively fermenting that evening as I made a starter for it.

This is my first time using water treatments and mineral water.

I am still learning all grain, so a couple of questions:
1: I added hops at flameout and left them in there permanently. Is that OK? Same with the dry hopping, they will be in there until the end.
2: Is the yeast selection OK for this style or should I look to get one of the more popular choices?
3: Mash temperature was not consistent. It never dropped below 150F, but it spent more time at 160F. Is that OK?

Any other comments or suggestions would be good. Thanks!

 

[geetee]

First I reckon your mash temp of 66 - 71 is a bit ambiguous, 67 should be OK but constant if possible (+/-1°C)
Why 2 types of pale malt
For this style of beer I would probably still use more hops even though you have a smaller volume, the best NEIPAs are agressive with hops but very fruity.
The yeast is the critical agent here you want a low flocculating fruity estery type yeast and I would use either Vermont or WLP644 "brett" Trois

As for hops at flameout or steep you may get lots of answers, I take mine out when I transfer to FV but not everyone does.
Dry hops leave until the end.
As far as water treatment you want to try to express the hop flavour so Chlorides ratio higher than the sulphates. about 2:1

 

[tobiasbeecher]

It is indeed ambiguous. I found it really hard to keep it stable, plus, despite some stirring, the temperature would appear to vary depending where I sampled. For example, the water around the false floor was usually a bit cooler than directly above the false floor in the middle of the mash. I did the best I could, considering. It was certainly moreso toward the higher temperature range, than lower. Thats is partly why the boil time was shorter. Plus, I am not interested in efficiency etc, just in creating a nice beer.

2 types of pale malt just so that if one of them isn't to my tastes, it doesn't fully dominate the malt bill. If someone said to me "you must use entirely pale malt X" than I would do just that.

Si you think more than 75g of hops for 5L brew? Increase as high as 100g?

As for water treatment, would you be able to best guess what my ratio was given the above quantities I used?

Thanks. Looking to as accurately as possible create a NEIPA as they are so hard to buy here.

 

[IainM]

Sounds great. I can't comment on the water treatment, but the recipe looks good. Personally, I would've added a 5min addition, just to get a bit more bitterness, but I know a lot of people don't bother with this style. I think you'll be ok keeping in the flameout additions throughout. I think WLP007 is a good choice of yeast. I would delay the two post-pitching hop additions by a day though - I understand that the idea is biotransformation, but the fermentation should still be active on day 2, and probably day 4, and you don't want to bubble off too much aroma. Any reason for the short mash?

 

[geetee]

It is indeed ambiguous. I found it really hard to keep it stable, plus, despite some stirring, the temperature would appear to vary depending where I sampled. For example, the water around the false floor was usually a bit cooler than directly above the false floor in the middle of the mash. I did the best I could, considering. It was certainly more so toward the higher temperature range, than lower. Thats is partly why the boil time was shorter. Plus, I am not interested in efficiency etc, just in creating a nice beer.

2 types of pale malt just so that if one of them isn't to my tastes, it doesn't fully dominate the malt bill. If someone said to me "you must use entirely pale malt X" than I would do just that.

Si you think more than 75g of hops for 5L brew? Increase as high as 100g?

As for water treatment, would you be able to best guess what my ratio was given the above quantities I used?

Thanks. Looking to as accurately as possible create a NEIPA as they are so hard to buy here.

Not possible to say how to adjust your water without knowing what is in it. People usually add a spoonful of gypsum which is sulphate (better for the bitterness) but in your case you want the chloride to be twice the amount of the sulphate, without a baseline measurement it's hard to adjust, you would need a water report.

No big deal over malt choice but GP and crisp both pale malts and one would suffice saves weighing out 2 GP slightly sweeter but take your choice.
If it were me I would go to 100g for hops ( I put 350g+ into a 23 litre batch)
maybe as IanM says.
71°C is a bit high for a mash, it can affect the body of the beer not just efficiency.

Can't comment on WLP007, never used it but IanM seems to think it's OK, I have only used the two I recommended.

Agree to leave the first dry hops until fermentation is past halfway.

 

[Sadfield]

NIEPA water treatment goes against what would normally be done for a hoppy beer. The aim is for soft, full mouthfeel, and also sodium to suppress the bitterness. So think Stout type water rather than IPA. IIRC DLS provides more sulphate than chloride. An addition of table salt (sodium chloride) will help achieve both these aims. Not sure you'll need CRS in ashbeck as its only around 25ppm Bicarbonate.

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[geetee]

NIEPA water treatment goes against what would normally be done for a hoppy beer. The aim is for soft, full mouthfeel, and also sodium to suppress the bitterness. So think Stout type water rather than IPA. IIRC DLS provides more sulphate than chloride. An addition of table salt (sodium chloride) will help achieve both these aims. Not sure you'll need CRS in ashbeck as its only around 25ppm Bicarbonate.

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Thanks for the update, My info was based on reading a few US articles where they had used a 2:1 chloride ratio that I followed, mine turned our really nice but have put the soft mouthfeel down to the yeast in suspension.

PS I didn't use any oats which lots of them do so the smooth feel I reckon is the WLP644 yeast.

 

[Sadfield]

Yeah 2:1 in favour of Chloride is a good balance and I agree the yeast plays a big part, I believe elevated glycerol production during biotransformation plays a part also.

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[MickDundee]

75g of hops looks low to me for a NEIPA.

 

[IainM]

75g of hops looks low to me for a NEIPA.

Bear in mind this is a 5L batch, so is about the same as 350g in a 23L batch.

 

[MickDundee]

Bear in mind this is a 5L batch, so is about the same as 350g in a 23L batch.

Oops! That's what I get for not reading properly (skimmed the grain %s then looked at the hops). Sounds spot on then. I recently made one with 325g of hops for 23L and early samples are incredibly promising!

 

[strange-steve]

The obvious thing I see is that you've took the lovely soft Ashbeck water and unnecessarily added a load of acid and minerals to it. Between the CRS and DLS you have added about 140ppm of chloride and 250ppm sulphate, which might be ok in an English Burton style IPA but it's not right for this. You'll probably be lacking the soft mouthfeel of this style and the bitterness will probably be harsher than you want. What you should have done is used the Ashbeck with about 1g of calcium chloride in it and nothing else.

 

[tobiasbeecher]

Ah... had I misinterpreted and was meant to use that dose, for my hard thames valley tap water?

1g calcium chloride... per L, or total for 5L? (for next time)

Am I likely to have ruined this entirely or will it only be a "little" out? It smells so nice!

 

[tobiasbeecher]

It looks a little murky:
http://imgur.com/GYLrnEU

With that much trub from the grains and hops, will I be able to clean the yeast successfully?

 

[IainM]

It looks a little murky:
http://imgur.com/GYLrnEU

With that much trub from the grains and hops, will I be able to clean the yeast successfully?

Yeah. It might never be clear, nor should it be, but it will drop.

 

[tobiasbeecher]

I am hoping it retains the haze, true to the style. Just worried that I might not be able to separate the yeast from the rest of the sediment.

 

[tobiasbeecher]

One question regarding the fermentation of this style. I pitched the starter, that same evening it was buzzing with activity. 24 hours later (last night) it was much the same. This morning, 36 hours later, it has tailed off a great extent. Obviously still active, just nowhere near as ferocious as it was.

Typically when I brew, it starts active and then very gradually tails off toward the end. This one is the only one to not have done that.

Is that typical for this brew style? Or need I not worry?

 

[Martybhoy]

WLP007 can be like that. It's a high attenuator too.

I brewed an oatmeal stout with it recently, and it stopped fermenting after 3 days.

 

[tobiasbeecher]

Stopped entirely? As in, reached final gravity? Or just slowed right down?

 

[Martybhoy]

Stopped entirely. Has reached the higher end of the FG target. Currently sitting in brewfridge, hasn't budged in a week. Will bottle this Sunday.

I done what I could to get the gravity down 2-3 points, to no avail. I guess there's no fermenttable sugar left in FV.



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