My initial AG Brewery design!

[pjbiker]

Counter flow system is not to hard to make but needs a pumped flow to be effective and is more challenging to keep clean, sanitize :)

Springer means the wort flow is pumped, the cooling water from mains pressure is fine. at first I used one gravity fed, and 60+L of wort through 10m of 10mm copper coil was too slow. Introduction of 12V pump halved the time to about 25min. With an immersion chiller would probably be slower overall, can't speak from experience for 60L brew but I'd guess about 45-50min including collection in FVs. Anyone?

 

[periolus]

Good stuff - thanks for all the comments. Just out of interest, I am assuming I can just use my boiler as a sparge tank, just get it to the right temp while the mash is under way. I would just need to add my sparge arm with the shower heads/water can ends. That is fly sparging isn't it? With batch sparging, would I need to use some of the wort again and pour it back into the tun? Or do you use a pre-calculated amount of water to top up to your final wort volume?

 

[periolus]

Hey, would the following be suitable as a hose for the Counterflow water chiller? It is 13mm clear PVC - you would be able to see the copper pipe inside and everything! Very nice! This with 10mm copper tubing for the chiller?

 

[periolus]

Oops - forgot the link!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-PVC-hose-13mm ... 30fffa390a

This is the stuff I was talking about! Alternatively, would 8mm copper fit in here or is that too 'floppy' inside, to conjour up a horrible image!

 

[Springer]

I am assuming I can just use my boiler as a sparge tank

Not sure what you mean here, your spargings are normally fed into the boiler

Are you sure you want to go counterflow, don't know but I think most people use an immersions type, but hey the choice is yours :)

My counterflow chiller is 1/2 inch braided with a 8mm copper down the middle, I will post a pic. 10 mm doesn't leave much room around it in a 1/2 inches bore. Heat transfer area is what its about, there is not much difference between 8 mm and 10 mm if you work out the circumference of each. As PJ said the wort goes down the copper, my set up works really well, but immersions are much simpler to make and use, hint hint especially when you have lots of other things on your mind. I normally use my IMMERSION :) :thumb: :clap: :idea: :hmm: ........... :lol: especially for small brews it will always be useful.


I think a schematic on my set up may help you :? I'll have a look for it :thumb:

 

[Springer]

I can run with or without the HERMS in circuit.
Spargings from the mash tun are pumped up to the boiler.
I run off from the boiler into 25 litre buckets and then lift them onto the draining board to use my IMMERSION cooler.
Or I fill the fermenting buckets by pumping through the counterflow cooler, lots of pipes about and need sanitizing before use. the pumping is to get a reasonable flow. I may use this method more for big brew, but especially when / if I get a conical fermenter :pray:

I must stress these are the ways I do thinks but there are loads of variations and I don't want to lead you down my way, I am only trying to help you to get the principals in your mind.

 

[pjbiker]

Hi again, 13mm hose sounds a little too narrow but with 8mm copper may be OK, if you're going to do it, I'd say just use garden hose/ 1/2" braided hose and 8/10mm copper. To be honest, I think springer is on the right track advising an immersion chiller at first, you can always go counterflow at a later date, it's an extra complication that isn't necessary to start with.

Regarding using your boiler to heat sparge liquor. Yes, this is possible and until last weekend, this is what I did. The problem is, you will need to collect your runnings from the mash tun (in both fly, or batch sparging methods) in the boiler to heat up to boil temperature, so the sparge liquor needs to be heated during the mash then transferred into another (or 2) container(s) for use during the sparge. Once transferred it will begin to cool down which is not ideal, hence the used of a separate 'Hot liquor tun' instead.

Used my new set-up for first time on Friday, very pleased with the addition of the HLT. :thumb:

 

[periolus]

Hi! Okay - I will absorb all this info and research sparging some more. Am I right, initially, in thinking that fly sparging is only possible by recirculating using HERMS or RIMS?

 

[Aleman]

I fly sparge with a piece of perforated aluminium foil and a 1L jug!

Fly sparging is so called because you top up the mash tun with liquor as you draw sweet wort off from the bottom . . nothing at all to do with any sort of step mashing / mash stabilisation system

 

[Springer]

Hi Periolus,
I can see that you put a lot of thought into things.
This brewing thing does not have to be complicated, but it can be if you want it to be, thats part of the fun for some :) On my "basic" set up, as above I didn't even bother with the foil as A suggests, just let liquid in and out. Perhaps not good but it worked for me, might invest in piece of foil :hmm: , some say you can get channeling in the bed doing it my way :)
Fully appreciate trying to get your build right first time, but there are always improvements to be made, you will be lucky to hit it all first time, but its better to think once and cut twice :? neah got that the wrong way round :lol:

 

[periolus]

Hi!

Cheers for that - I find it more and more reassuring with every piece of advice and experience I get! I think in the long run, my set up won't be that complicated, but I think I always feel happier understanding how it would work further down the line and then stepping back for the actual practical side, if you know what I mean.

I have loads of time anyway - a good 2-3 months before I even start buying the bits!

 

[pjbiker]

Hi! Okay - I will absorb all this info and research sparging some more. Am I right, initially, in thinking that fly sparging is only possible by recirculating using HERMS or RIMS?

Simple answer: No

Batch sparging: add some liquor, wait a bit, drain into boiler, add some more liquor, wait a bit more, drain into boiler, (maybe repeat this step) boil. I've never used this method.

Fly sparging: make initial mash at 2.5-3:1 liquor:grain ratio, insulate and wait ~90mins, recirculate (with a jug if you like) until runnings become clear (ish), collect runnings in boiler at the same rate as running known volume of sparge liquor into the top of mash tun and continue until mash tun runs dry over about 1hr15-2hrs depending on who you ask

HERMS and RIMS refers to recirculating the wort through the grain during the mash period and maintaining or adjusting it's temperature via a separate heat exchanger.

 

[pjbiker]

I fly sparge with a piece of perforated aluminium foil and a 1L jug!

I use a plastic picnic plate in tasteless lime green with holes drilled in it . Havn't perfected the more professional, 'spinning sparge arm' yet, but honestly it's only really a cosmetic improvement to make it look more 'proper like' :lol: . The principal is to avoid disturbing the grain bed and getting even spread of sparge water throughout

 

[periolus]

Okay! I think where I have fallen down is where I have confused boiler/kettle - where some people refer to the kettle as boiler, and others as kettle etc.

I had an idea for a removable T-piece inside my mash tun with shower heads or watering can roses on so that the sparge water, still coming from my boiler (at the start of the chain), can give a nice even spread. I'll keep thinking on it - please do keep suggestions coming, it is really helpful. :thumb:

 

[Springer]

Your nearly there P.

Its all been done, keep researching and then make up your mind how you want your set up.

 

[pjbiker]

I had an idea for a removable T-piece inside my mash tun with shower heads or watering can roses on so that the sparge water, still coming from my boiler (at the start of the chain), can give a nice even spread. I'll keep thinking on it - please do keep suggestions coming, it is really helpful. :thumb:

That will work absolutely fine. I'd go for the watering can roses.

Okay! I think where I have fallen down is where I have confused boiler/kettle - where some people refer to the kettle as boiler, and others as kettle etc.

Aha, yes. Many terms used. To clarify.

For heating water, (start of chain) = Hot Liquor Tun (HLT). Generally not referred to as boiler, water is never really 'boiled' in it.

For heating and boiling wort after collection from mash tun (or if you don't have a dedicated HLT yet, the water 'liquor' too) = boiler, kettle or copper. This is how I've always understood it anyway.