My beers keep getting infected

[Sadfield]

Just Google anionic sterilisers there are many manufacturers, all state the same as the post I put up, if you disagree post your reply and evidence it is a fungicide. Show me a citation that it isn't. Simple.

Please read my reply to your previous post. Is it so hard to help someone on this forum? If you want to help the OP in his dilemma do so. Once more Star San is not a fungicide, my argument on he other thread is about letting Star San dry, as quoted in their spec sheet, and others making the same product.

Once more, Starsan is a fungicide.

Once more, no citations to back up your arguement only "Just google..." which I believe contravenes forum rules.

 

[jceg316]

jceg316 apologies I reread the thread, I missed your comment ref reusing yeast. I wouldn't, I used to. Just to save a couple of quid and be able to use fermenting yeast to pitch rather than dried. But I did get an infected brew (acetomonas). Tsk must have missed that when checking the yeast with my shnoz.

Re using yeast is after all what the production brewers do. But they only do this for so many generations and acid wash, and examine a sample under microscope to check on yeast health and bacterial infection. Do I want to faff about acid washing? Do I have a microscope? Nope

I decided that for the saving of £2.40 (current price of Safale S-04) it simply wasn't worth the risk. I have tried yeast starters,in theory that would seen the way to go but in practice dried yeast Safale S-04 seems to take off quickly so a starter adds risk, time & effort for no great improvement. For other yeast this might not be the case.

I use a lot of liquid yeast and kveik, both of which are fine to repitch as long as conditions are sanitary, and understand about the '5 uses rule'. There are ways round it but it's a bit off topic for this thread, happy to go into more detail in a PM or another thread though.

Whenever I have any doubts about the brew I throw the yeast away and don't reuse it. I pour the yeast cake into a sanitised jar and put it in my fridge. I don't bother washing because this seems like another way to open the yeast up to the air and more things to contaminate etc. Once I opened a jar and there was mould on top, but that batch also went bad, so I chucked it.

 

[jceg316]

I do appreciate everyone trying to help here but I do agree that citing sources is important in general. There's a lot of (mis)information when it comes to homebrew, and it's easy to get to a point where there are very few black and white concepts. I do Google a lot, I do my own research, but it's really helpful to have a direct link to a good source of helpful information.

It's probably is how I got into this mess as I'm not sure on the limits of starsan and other saniting/sterilising techniques.

 

[Ajhutch]

Doing the ultra glamorous job this morning of cleaning the kitchen drains got me thinking of this thread. A hot water/sodium bicarbonate/vinegar/hot water cycle does wonders round the house for cleaning inaccessible places like pipes and drains. Does it have applicability here where the consensus seems to be you have muck in a hidden place? Or is it a bad combination of chemicals for brewing because of the residues it leaves behind?

 

[dad_of_jon]

I have to admit that I have given out 'star stan (SS) doesn't kill yeast' advice. I can see where the confusion lies. At a specified dilution it is not harmful to yeast and I believe on the starsan site says it breaks down into a nutrient. So when filling an fv where all the internal walls and where my beer bottles have been rinsed in SS but NOT dried with SS, the dilution with the wort and latterly beer is low enough to not wipe the yeast out. Yet directly spraying onto a surface of the inside of the fv would kill the yeast on that surface when the solution is around ph3, or 300ppm of the active ingredient as mentioned on the bottle.

Of course i am pitching my yeast into an SS'd fv that already has 20+ litres of wort in it. Never had an issue with fermentation or carbonation in bottles either (apart from when I underprimed)

So its great for using to sanitise and not-rinsing the starsan off is not going to kill the yeast in your wort & beer. A direct spray onto a surface will however zap whats there.

 

[Keats]

Good post @dad_of_jon helpful and straight forward explanation! :thumba:

 

[The Baron]

I have to admit that I have given out 'star stan (SS) doesn't kill yeast' advice. I can see where the confusion lies. At a specified dilution it is not harmful to yeast and I believe on the starsan site says it breaks down into a nutrient. So when filling an fv where all the internal walls and where my beer bottles have been rinsed in SS but NOT dried with SS, the dilution with the wort and latterly beer is low enough to not wipe the yeast out. Yet directly spraying onto a surface of the inside of the fv would kill the yeast on that surface when the solution is around ph3, or 300ppm of the active ingredient as mentioned on the bottle.

Of course i am pitching my yeast into an SS'd fv that already has 20+ litres of wort in it. Never had an issue with fermentation or carbonation in bottles either (apart from when I underprimed)

So its great for using to sanitise and not-rinsing the starsan off is not going to kill the yeast in your wort & beer. A direct spray onto a surface will however zap whats there.

Top lay mans explanation without the scientists disagreements :thumba:

 

[Rodcx500z]

+1 above I understood that perfectly

 

[jceg316]

So, I've just been taking apart my grainfather, taking out the pump, cleaning all parts etc. It's filthy! Rotting grains in places, not sure how they have been there for so long? I need to get pipe cleaners to do a proper job which I will do.

 

[BeerCat]

I really feel for you. Seems like you have found the problem though. When my pump broke I took it apart and it was spotless but I use a bag as well.

 

[Pavros]

Well done DoJ. You explained the Star San thing well just when I was going to tell them to take their mumbo jumbo argument to a new thread as it was distracting from jceg's problem (although I'm waiting for some smart arse to ask for a citation!).

Jceg, glad you've found something that could be the problem. It's amazing how much crud hides in valves, taps and pumps even though there is liquid flowing through them.

 

[strange-steve]

Well done DoJ. You explained the Star San thing well just when I was going to tell them to take their mumbo jumbo argument to a new thread as it was distracting from jceg's problem (although I'm waiting for some smart a**e to ask for a citation!).

You know what, you're right. I forgot that even with Gunge no longer with us there's still a surprisingly large anti-science contingent on this forum, so to those members I apologise.

 

[The Baron]

Well said Steve and you are the man on water/chemicals to go to

 

[Rodcx500z]

I understand what the argument is I just can't get my head around it, starsan must work and do what it says on the bottle an awful lot of people use it, I am not anti-science, science is a wonderful thing but sometimes hard to grasp and there in lie's the problem an example of that is, the other day I read somewere a volcano erupted and so called spewed out more co2 in one day since time began, who do I believe Donald Trump or Greta Thunberg, anyway my cleaning and sanitation consists of a good scrub with hot water and fairy liquid rinse followed by rip off Milton 1 cap per 5L it has worked so far no issues, just use what works for you life is to short for owt else

 

[The Baron]

I think the problem is that the OP is looking for a cure to his infection problem and the thread started to be hi-jacked into a I will not use the word argument but a discussion about other factors. The thread should be about helping a forum member to resolve the issue or we are in danger of a homebrewer saying %£&* it out of frustration of no solution to their problem and losing a forum member. I have no problem with the said side discussion but another thread should be started away from the OP. I have learned a lot from some of these so called discussions so would not want to ever stop them but prefer to sit on the side lines and read them rather than participate

 

[Chippy_Tea]

(although I'm waiting for some smart a**e to ask for a citation!).

Play nice people, i thought i was in the snug for a moment.

.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Having read the whole thread again, this is not the first time a member who shall remain nameless has hi jacked a thread, I hope Jceg get his problem sorted as soon as and gets back to brewing good ale, I will comment no more on this

 

[Sadfield]

We are all here to learn something, so if someone suggest a product doesn't do what it clearly claims to in its literature, I'll ask for citation. I'm happy to accept new ideas, from a smarter arse, but not without reasoning.

Whether this is a distraction to the OPs problem, I'll offer the arguement that Starsan is proven by non-scientific, anecdotal evidence to be very effective. To insist that the one satisfactory part of their process doesn't do its job, without justification, distracts from finding the real issue and needs questioning.

To repeat earlier posts. Thoroughly clean both physically and chemically, then sanitise. Don't blitz it with Bleach, as that will corrode the stainless steel. Eliminate the pump issue by doing a kit brew, to discover if the issue is pre or post cooling.

 

[foxy]

Once more, Starsan is a fungicide.
View attachment 20856
Once more, no citations to back up your arguement only "Just google..." which I believe contravenes forum rules.

https://seafood.oregonstate.edu/sit...n-food-processing-and-handling-operations.pdf
There are loads of papers like this, one just has to look. (Acid-Anionic sanitisers)
It should only be common sense, if Star San was a full on fungacide it would be of no use to brewers.

 

[foxy]

I will do for my next brew. How long does it last when made up with this water?

Typical Brewday

I have a Grainfather and my brew method is nothing out the ordinary. When I cool the wort after the boil I run the boiling wort through the chiller for 10 mins, as recommended by GF. I do notice that sometimes the wort stops pumping through after a while. I don't know why this is. I turn the pump off for a few seconds, turn it on again and it works. The chiller remains very hot during this time, I'm guessing 80c+ hot.

I fill my fermenter with ~5l of starsan solution and rinse it round. I pick up the FV, rotate it a number of times so Starsan has been on all surfaces, hold it upside down for a bit. Empty the starsan just before transferring the cooled wort.

Once filled with wort, I put the fv in my fridge where I let the temperature stabilise to pitching temp, sometimes this can be left overnight. I pitch the wort. I have a spray made up of starsan which lasts me a month before it's empty and I spray the yeast receptacle and FV lid. I then leave it. If my fridge is full I'll pitch the yeast straight away and leave the fv somewhere.

Bottling Day

Each bottle I rinse until clean, I might miss one or two sometimes. I also try and heat sterilise in the oven before brewday but can't always do this for every bottle. I put them in the oven at ~110C for 20mins (including preheat).

I have one of those bottle rinsers I fill with starsan and rinse each bottle with 3 sprays. I put my caps in there too. Leave the bottles on a bottle tree.

I pour boiling water on sugar and stir, Spray starsan on the mug and pour it into the FV (I bottle straight from my conical FV). I spray a large plastic spoon with starsan and gently stir the sugar in.

I have a stainless steel bottling wand I put in the oven along with small cuts of silicone hosing, take them out the oven and dunk into a bucket of starsan and leave it there until I'm ready to bottle. My FV has a tap I spray with starsan before connecting this up.

Bottle the beers and put a cap on the top straight from starsan then seal.

Please let me know if I've missed anything or you would like any more detail on the process.

So, I've just been taking apart my grainfather, taking out the pump, cleaning all parts etc. It's filthy! Rotting grains in places, not sure how they have been there for so long? I need to get pipe cleaners to do a proper job which I will do.

I think the anecdotal evidence is right there, the dirty pump will be a hot bed for wild yeast (hence the start of fermentation before yeast is pitched) Star San is liberally used in his cleaning regime, cleaning the bottles and fermenter yet the wild yeast has survived!