Monitoring leccy usage

[hoppyscotty]

For a number of reasins want to start monitoring my electricity usage for brewing. My rough back of the *** packet calcs tell me that despite recent rises in leccy prices I still think the costs are still quite low and a small proportion of the overall cost of brewing, but I'd like to measure it as I'm considering things like solar and smart tariffs etc.

My 3 vessel system runs off two 32a direct supplies off commando sockets so can't use the usual widely available 3-pin plug type of energy consumptions meters. So a quick google search threw up theses and other products like them...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Consumptio...7a12bd8039323b6494ec628b6674d920&gad_source=1

Do these look like the right thing anyone got any experience of similar type of product?

 

[Caramel Ox]

To answer indirectly can’t you work it out on paper? You have a volume of water with a temperature change from ambient to 100c, can assume mash temperature maintenance to be insignificant, then you have a boil at a fixed power output?

 

[hoppyscotty]

Can do and that is what I've been doing up until now...I know how long it takes to heat water up when the elements are running at 100% to bring water upto temp, I can make a rough estimate of the time the elements are on when under PID control, but I was just looking to be a bit more accurate. Also via the normal 3-pin plug meters I can directly monitor the cost of pump running and refrigeration as I have a glycol chiller chugging away and a couple of fridges o the go too. Also I see alot of temp variation in my garage. Gets blooming hot in there on a sunny summers day and even when its cold in there over winter the fridges and glycol chiller can chuck out some heat, so would be good to get a good handle on that so I can start to suss out ways to make all that more efficient. I suspect the cost of running the fridges and glycol chiller dwarfs the cost of actual brewing.

Considering getting a battery set up running off cheap night rates...want to work out the payback period. Solar doesn't work for me as my roof is not optimally aligned and the shape of it means I have severe limitations as to how many panels I can fit on the roof and they look crap and the wife doesnt want them for aesthetic reasons. But I suspect even charging batteries up on cheap night rate and burning that off during the day should be better.

I'm getting to the age now where if the payback is not in single figures of years then I'm not interested...my electricity consumption is not that great, got a pretty efficient house so everything outside of brewing uses FA electricity. But if high leccy prices are here to stay and might even get pricier then just pondering what options I have.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

For a number of reasins want to start monitoring my electricity usage for brewing. My rough back of the *** packet calcs tell me that despite recent rises in leccy prices I still think the costs are still quite low and a small proportion of the overall cost of brewing, but I'd like to measure it as I'm considering things like solar and smart tariffs etc.

My 3 vessel system runs off two 32a direct supplies off commando sockets so can't use the usual widely available 3-pin plug type of energy consumptions meters. So a quick google search threw up theses and other products like them...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Consumptio...7a12bd8039323b6494ec628b6674d920&gad_source=1

Do these look like the right thing anyone got any experience of similar type of product?

I’ve not used the specific one you’ve posted but I do use similar meters in my brewshed (also from Amazon).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KETOTEK-Voltage-Ammeter-Multimeter-Voltmeter/dp/B07P8KJXXV/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=393GJR5FJ3OV5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ZPx9r_qmEH1UzoW6FF_PWsXEdBjwlq2eVIYBGKwkCnHgdFo6VjnekamPC9I9YGEFidhQDGEPvqj1svCrCVyhsBnsw4hljddOoFQEch81QX4P3yXysOikZ2jQxQYttRjL_3_tPtmgSWgV61eMhHCAcBylwD3rxZYP5Y9ebRr-G58tWigKtI32qIzOvO1HenZ94g3iaYculiMUm08HhOb6iw.5KdwpjKPpZZLb4ybu3Ne902l4Bz6x-2R8NzENKiLjew&dib_tag=se&keywords=energy+meter+100a&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1727091195&sprefix=energy+meter+100a,aps,101&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1

The ones I use don’t have an app or any software to produce the charts but the device does the job. Here’s a picture of them during the refit of my brewshed. They monitor heating consumption, cooling consumption, and total consumption which is both of the above plus power points, lights, bar fridge, bar heater, bar fan, etc.

 

[MashBag]

Why not save the £20 and put it towards the next leccy bill. Instead take a meter reading before and after.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Why not save the £20 and put it towards the next leccy bill. Instead take a meter reading before and after.

Wouldn't that be inaccurate as it would include all the other things that are using electricity at the same time?

 

[hoppyscotty]

Well the whole point is I want a more accurate measurement over time as to what my power consumption is for many reasons...partly to look to how I can save energy and partly for other purposes.

For example I could spend a couple of hundred pounds on insulation to prevent temperature swings in the summer from the south facing brick wall that absorbs heat during the day then radiates it out into the garage during the night.

I could add thermo-controlled fan to kick in when the temperature increases in the garage thus impacting the chiller efficiency.

Or I could invest many thousands of pounds on a battery system and charge up with cheap leccy and use that during the day....

To make an informed decision on any of these options I really need a better understanding of my consumption.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Why not save the £20 and put it towards the next leccy bill. Instead take a meter reading before and after.

Nah! My inner geek wouldn’t allow it.

 

[MashBag]

Wouldn't that be inaccurate as it would include all the other things that are using electricity at the same time?

Yes, but you could control that to some extent, and a slightly high reading isn't a bad this.

If you think too much about usage and particularly solar (renewables) you will always be 'out'. Ask me how I know

 

[jof]

Not sure about payback if you just had batteries, as you will also need an inverter rated high enough for your power use.

I have panels & batteries & economy 7.
Batteries work as panels charge them about 2/3 of the year & I charge them on economy 7 in the winter. I don't think the cost of them would pay if you had no panels & had to charge on E7.

However, if you have an electric car charger & qualify for lower rates (although I suspect the government will increase vat on car charging power)
Or you can get batter/inverter combo compatible with (for example octopus) fancy flexible off peak rates, then I think it will work. But these are still a bit bleeding edge & expensive last time I looked.

 

[lancon]

Take meter readings on normal days then do brew take readings that should give brewday cost.
Then turn off all beer equipment (fridges &etc) perhaps for a while ?6 hours? take meter readings before and after, should be able to get a reasonably good idea from that?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Take meter readings on normal days then do brew take readings that should give brewday cost.
Then turn off all beer equipment (fridges &etc) perhaps for a while ?6 hours? take meter readings before and after, should be able to get a reasonably good idea from that?

If you live by yourself that can work.
If you have a family, they may look at you like this

 

[lancon]

Can't see what they would have to do with it? Or are they brewing too.? You don't need to switch off anything apart from your beer equipment.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Can't see what they would have to do with it? Or are they brewing too.? You don't need to switch off anything apart from your beer equipment.

ah, I thought you were suggesting turning everything else off in the house, not just the brewing equipment.

I don't know about you, but our electricity usage for the house varies across the day as the TV, computers, washing machines, microwaves etc go on and off. Day to day it can vary by as much as 3-5kW. It would be hard to get some kind of accurate reading from brewing with all that noise

 

[lancon]

Which is why you take readings for a week, then the brewday would show up, then the 6 hour switch off of beer equipment readings would be reasonably constant? Or you could do 4 separate 6 hour switch offs 12-6am 6am -12 & etc then work from there

 

[Sneedhearn]

For a number of reasins want to start monitoring my electricity usage for brewing. My rough back of the *** packet calcs tell me that despite recent rises in leccy prices I still think the costs are still quite low and a small proportion of the overall cost of brewing, but I'd like to measure it as I'm considering things like solar and smart tariffs etc.

My 3 vessel system runs off two 32a direct supplies off commando sockets so can't use the usual widely available 3-pin plug type of energy consumptions meters. So a quick google search threw up theses and other products like them...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Consumptio...7a12bd8039323b6494ec628b6674d920&gad_source=1

Do these look like the right thing anyone got any experience of similar type of product?

That split CT device will be perfect for your job. I use similar devices all the time in my professional life to give customers a low cost, reasonably accurate, sub-metering system. We obviously use approved meters on fiscal supplies but the split CT's allow us to show exactly how the consumption breaks down across a building or campus.

At home I use a system called Emporia Vue to monitor usage across each circuit leaving the consumer units. It works well enough.

Another system I've become aware of recently and intend having a closer look at is by a company called Voltaware. This is an AI based system, made in England, that somehow works out which devices are connected and consuming via their consumption profile.

I understand that at a domestic level we won't get a decent return on investment or payback period with this type of stuff, like we do at a commercial scale, but like yourself I enjoy using the technology.

 

[MashBag]

Also I would have thought high loads (3kw) are not really suited to batteries

 

[Agentgonzo]

Also I would have thought high loads (3kw) are not really suited to batteries

My battery can export 3.6kW to the house, so brewing from the battery is no problem.
What I did find about battery/brewing is that when I set my GF to boil at 70% power, it doesnt' just reduce the load on the heater, it goes at full blast for 0.7s, then off for 0.3s. Feeding thing from the mains is fine, but batteries can't react to quick changes it load (they take several seconds). So what probably ends up happening is that the battery pumps out (say) 2kW constantly, and for the 0.7s that the GF is drawing power, that comes from the battery. But for the 0.3s that it's not drawing power, the battery is still discharging 2kW so that just goes straight into the grid.

If the load is constant, batteries are fine though

 

[MashBag]

I wasn't thinking about dump, but that's a good point.

I was thinking of the actual load, creating strain and shortening the life of the batteries.

And the greater the load & more importantly the greater power loss through the inefficiency of going 240v > battery > 240v.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I was thinking of the actual load, creating strain and shortening the life of the batteries.

Is that true of all different battery technologies?