Melanoidin and acid malt in NEIPA

[Pit Creature]

I’m pretty new to this but i’ve made a couple of basic BIAB beers so i’m wanting to experiment with different specialty malts.

I’ve had a look at different people’s NEIPA recipes on brewers friend and lots of them have Canadian honey malt in them which I believe is unavailable in the U.K. So I’ve got some Melanoidin malt which I haven’t used before because some people have described it as similar. Looking at the description of it i’m not sure it will suit the style?

I’ve also got some acid malt although I haven’t tried to read the PH of the wort before so I’m not really sure what it will contribute?

Was thinking of adding 2% Melanoidin and 1% acid to 77% Maris otter 10% flaked wheat and 10% flaked oats.

Does that sound like it would be alright? As I say I’m not sure what they will add.

 

[divrack]

Melanoidin is similar but different. I've used both. It's definitely worth adding some acid as there isn't much in the grain bill to drop the pH.
I'm not sure how much though as it depends on your water profile.
I use ro water and add about 5ml of lactic acid for what it's worth. Have also used lemon juice.

The melanoidin works well in the more orange juicy examples of the style that use yeast like Conan or juice and have active ferment dry hopping, but if you were wanting a pillowy white sharply defined hoppy beer you could do without it and use London fog or similar and do more of a standard big dry hop.
Or do whatever really. I don't think the style is very well defined except it's got a tonne of dry hops and is generally hazy and with yeast charachter

 

[divrack]

Melanoidin is similar but different. I've used both. It's definitely worth adding some acid as there isn't much in the grain bill to drop the pH.
I'm not sure how much though as it depends on your water profile.
I use ro water and add about 5ml of lactic acid for what it's worth. Have also used lemon juice.

The melanoidin works well in the more orange juicy examples of the style that use yeast like Conan or juice and have active ferment dry hopping, but if you were wanting a pillowy white sharply defined hoppy beer you could do without it and use London fog or similar and do more of a standard big dry hop.
Or do whatever really. I don't think the style is very well defined except it's got a tonne of dry hops and is generally hazy and with yeast charachter

i should also add that melanoidin malt varies in intensity/colour a fair bit. id go with a lighter variety as darker ones give a real chestnutty colour and toasty flavour.

also you can get honey malt from a fair few suppliers here btw

 

[Pit Creature]

i should also add that melanoidin malt varies in intensity/colour a fair bit. id go with a lighter variety as darker ones give a real chestnutty colour and toasty flavour.

also you can get honey malt from a fair few suppliers here btw

The EBC of the one I’ve got is 70. Think that’ll be too dark?

I couldn’t find any honey malt last time I checked. Where are you getting in from?

Also, do you know anywhere to get liquid yeast without paying a fortune for postage?

I was probably just going to use S-04.

Thanks

 

[Leon103]

The EBC of the one I’ve got is 70. Think that’ll be too dark?

I couldn’t find any honey malt last time I checked. Where are you getting in from?

Also, do you know anywhere to get liquid yeast without paying a fortune for postage?

I was probably just going to use S-04.

Thanks

You don't want to be using s-04 with a neipa. If you are going to be throwing a load of hops in there and therefore expense you want to get the yeast right.

 

[foxbat]

Acidulated malt is not a flavour adjunct. It's basic pale malt laced with lactic acid. It should only really be used if you know how much you need. If you have your water report then calculators like the brunwater spreadsheet will show you the effect on mash pH of adding acid malt.

 

[divrack]

So4 is ok. There is a long thread somewhere where people are trying to nail the treehouse yeast and the result is mostly so4 with some t 58 and possibly wb06.

I'm not a huge fan of it personally.

The homebrew company is good for me as they don't charge a fortune to the Highlands

 

[Pit Creature]

You don't want to be using s-04 with a neipa. If you are going to be throwing a load of hops in there and therefore expense you want to get the yeast right.

I’ve taken your advice and have ordered some wyeast. I may as well see how good I can get this!

 

[Pit Creature]

i should also add that melanoidin malt varies in intensity/colour a fair bit. id go with a lighter variety as darker ones give a real chestnutty colour and toasty flavour.

also you can get honey malt from a fair few suppliers here btw

Managed to find some honey malt. Cheers!

 

[Pit Creature]

How many grams of hops would you tend to use in a 5 gallon batch? Would 300g do it?

I’ve got 400g all together but that may be overdoing it?

 

[Leon103]

How many grams of hops would you tend to use in a 5 gallon batch? Would 300g do it?

I’ve got 400g all together but that may be overdoing it?

What hops are they?
What hop schedule did you have planned? Personally I would put them all in

 

[Leon103]

I’ve taken your advice and have ordered some wyeast. I may as well see how good I can get this!

Don't forget to either:

Over build a starter
Top crop
Or keep the trub/wash yeast

Either of those will mean you have further yeast for future brews

 

[Pit Creature]

What hops are they?
What hop schedule did you have planned? Personally I would put them all in

I’ve got 100g each of Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic and Azacca. Was just intending to put a 1/3 of each in at flame out, then dry hopping a 1/3 each during fermentation, then dry hopping the rest for 3 days.

Was originally only going to use Citra, mosaic, Azacca but then I found some galaxy to order last minute.

 

[Pit Creature]

Don't forget to either:

Over build a starter
Top crop
Or keep the trub/wash yeast

Either of those will mean you have further yeast for future brews

Cheers. Do I just make a big starter and then split it in two and use half and keep half in the fridge? How long does it keep?

 

[Leon103]

Cheers. Do I just make a big starter and then split it in two and use half and keep half in the fridge? How long does it keep?

Yes.
Months, years. @MyQul tried reusing a yeast that is older than me

 

[Leon103]

I’ve got 100g each of Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic and Azacca. Was just intending to put a 1/3 of each in at flame out, then dry hopping a 1/3 each during fermentation, then dry hopping the rest for 3 days.

Was originally only going to use Citra, mosaic, Azacca but then I found some galaxy to order last minute.

I don't think there is a need for four hop types.
I would go big flame out, a small first dry hop. I do 10% of my total. Then big 2nd dry hop

 

[Pit Creature]

Yes.
Months, years. @MyQul tried reusing a yeast that is older than me

How long will I need to do the starter for it to multiply enough?

 

[Leon103]

I am not an expert but one step up I think. Do a 2l starter keeping back 500ml.

 

[MyQul]

Cheers. Do I just make a big starter and then split it in two and use half and keep half in the fridge? How long does it keep?

You can keep yeast in the fridge for months, as long as you make a starter with it. I normally harvest a yeast cake from the bottom of a brew into a jar which I keep in the fridge. Then whenever I need some yeast I take about a teaspoonful (for a 10L brew) and put it into a starter. Seeing as the jar is full of yeast at the start, a jar can last me months.

As Leon says, I cultured up the yeast dregs from a bottle of beer from 1977 (unfortunately it got infected but the yeast cells were still viable after 40 odd years)

 

[Pit Creature]

Thanks for the advice guys. I’ve just had my first try of this and it’s incredible. I’m not sure if it’s the yeast or honey malt that made the difference (probably both) but it’s way better than the last version I made.