Mash hopping, are you doing it? - Thiols, chelating metals, aroma, habit.....

[MashBag]

*IF* there is a magic hoppy bullet (in my brewery at least!) then it *might* be trub & crud...

Me too... All of it. And I measure it in pounds
It not only ferments quick bit clears well too.

 

[MashBag]

Further..

Winemakers will leave wine on the 'lees' (yeast trub) for ages. Further 'le bâtonnage' is a method of stiring them in back in for a protracted amount of time.

Makes a few days during primary, look positively amateur

 

[matt76]

There are Thiol precursors in both malt and hops so if you do find transferring the trub into your fermenter helps it might just be because you’ve brought more of the raw materials to the table?

In my mind though mash hopping is more about reducing the level of dissolved oxygen in your finished beer to maintain whatever hoppiness you have for longer (reducing oxidation) and generally slowing down the stalling process.

Yep, could be - the sludge certainly includes some green hop matter!

Moving to kegs and closed transfers has helped massively preserving hoppiness, it's just bottling where it degrades faster. But I agree, if I can get to a point where I'm consistently happier with the level of hoppiness it'll be interesting to see what mash hopping does.

The healthier, more vigorous fermentation, giving fruity esters from yeast growth and less subthreshold off flavours, might give the impression of hoppier beer, just through it being a better beer generally.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. It could be that simple!

 

[Twostage]

Read an article in Craft beer and brewing about thiols this morning (then had to search back through it when I read this thread to find it) and to quote "mash hopping releases bound thiols in hops". I suppose you would then need the right yeast to do the transformation (if that was what you were looking for).

Hope that isn't a repeat or cuts across anything in the rest of this thread, I might have read it too quick.

One of my latest brews was a thiol experiment where the hops were chosen for their thiol potential and 10% of the yeast was a wine yeast (71B). I think it is just coming good but the Missus said "ooo no, cat pee". It will be interesting to see how it matures.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Read an article in Craft beer and brewing about thiols this morning (then had to search back through it when I read this thread to find it) and to quote "mash hopping releases bound thiols in hops". I suppose you would then need the right yeast to do the transformation (if that was what you were looking for).

Hope that isn't a repeat or cuts across anything in the rest of this thread, I might have read it too quick.

One of my latest brews was a thiol experiment where the hops were chosen for their thiol potential and 10% of the yeast was a wine yeast (71B). I think it is just coming good but the Missus said "ooo no, cat pee". It will be interesting to see how it matures.

Some wine yeasts are kill strains so will eliminate the other yeasts you provide.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Some wine yeasts are kill strains so will eliminate the other yeasts you provide.

Not 71B, it's a rare exception.

7 years ago (!) I put together a list of killer and phenolic status of wine strains as best as I could find at the time :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/from-the-lab-wine-yeast-pof-and-killer-status.648095/

 

[Twostage]

Not 71B, it's a rare exception.

7 years ago (!) I put together a list of killer and phenolic status of wine strains as best as I could find at the time :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/from-the-lab-wine-yeast-pof-and-killer-status.648095/

Interesting. 71B was chosen because it was used by the author of the hop book I was reading. Didn't know there was such a thing as a killer yeast

 

[Sadfield]

A recent podcast. 30-40% Iron reduction with mash hopping for 1oz hops in a 5 gallon batch.

 

[Sadfield]

Some resources on Thiols.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en...iols-and-their-role-in-hop-biotransformation/

https://cdn.brewersassociation.org/...abHour_HopThiolReleaseInBeer_Presentation.pdf

https://yakimavalleyhops.com/blogs/news/mash-hopping-101

https://www.themadfermentationist.c...aren,competing against other strong aromatics

 

[Sadfield]

Well Jamil has had his mind changed.