Marcus Rashford becomes MBE

[Chippy_Tea]

A bit of info for all those that think there are hundreds of thousands of lazy gits sat at home playing on their play stations all day while we go out to work to pay their wages -



Who this applies to
Demerits and financial penalties apply to:

• job seekers, including those on Youth Allowance, in jobactive, Disability Employment Services or online employment services
• compulsory ParentsNext participants.

Watch the introduction to the compliance system videos on the jobactive website.

What mutual obligation requirements are
Mutual obligation requirements are tasks and activities you agree to do, to help you find a job.

Mutual obligation requirements were suspended in some areas due to COVID-19 but have now resumed in all states and territories.

Who has mutual obligation requirements
You have mutual obligation requirements if you get any of these:

• JobSeeker Payment
• Youth Allowance as a job seeker
• Parenting Payment and are a compulsory ParentsNext participant
• Parenting Payment single after your youngest child turns 6
• Special Benefit paid under certain conditions.

From 1 April 2021, you’ll need to meet mutual obligation requirements if you’re both:

• a sole trader or other self-employed customer
• getting JobSeeker Payment or Youth Allowance as a job seeker.

How demerits work
If you don’t meet your mutual obligation requirements you may have your payment suspended and you could get a demerit.

You’ll need to talk to your provider before your payment can start again. If they decide you don’t have a reasonable excuse they’ll give you a demerit but you won’t lose any money.

Each demerit lasts 6 months from the date you get it.

If you get 3 demerits in 6 months
You’ll need to attend a Capability Interview to discuss your circumstances and why you're not meeting your requirements.


If you get 5 demerits in 6 months
You’ll need to have a Capability Assessment. This makes sure your requirements are reasonable for your circumstances.

You may also have a Capability Assessment if you don’t go to a job interview and you don’t have a reasonable excuse.




What happens in the penalty zone
In the penalty zone there are no demerits. Instead, you may get a financial penalty if you don’t meet your requirements.

Your payment will be suspended and you’ll need to talk to your provider about why you didn’t meet your requirements. If your provider decides you don’t have a reasonable excuse they’ll refer it to us.

If it’s your first or second penalty you can either:

• talk to us about your reasons before we make a decision
• accept the penalty without talking to us.

If you’re facing a third penalty you cannot accept it without talking to us. If you don’t contact us, your payment will stay suspended and you won’t be able to report or get paid.

If you get a penalty you’ll:

• lose half of your fortnightly payment for the first penalty
• lose all of your fortnightly payment for the second penalty
• have your payment cancelled if you get a third penalty.

If we cancel your payment, you can submit a new claim. Keep in mind you won’t get a payment for at least 4 weeks. It could be longer as other waiting periods may also apply.

We can’t waive these penalties.

If you meet your requirements for 3 months, you’ll return to the green zone with no demerits.

Watch the compliance system videos about understanding financial penalties on the jobactive website.

 

[Avo]

It never cease to amaze me how people think it’s OK for children to go without food if they are unfortunate enough to be born to bad parents - yet they show indifference to the rich who routinely exploit a tax system already rigged in their favour.
Your vitriol is so misplaced it is actually incredulous.
This country has more than enough money to feed and house every family but we chose to tax labour higher than capital gains, which will only ever benefit the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

Hit the nail on the head. Problem is, go to any public place, you see the ones at the bottom of the pile. They are visible, in your face, a constant reminder to be careful, keep your nose down, do your job, pay taxes, otherwise you could slip down that slope.
You don't see much of the top feeders, they don't go to your places, shop in your shops, drink in your pubs, almost as if they didn't exist. Which one is easier to hate, look down upon ?

 

[m_kc]

I hade to remind myself that posting what i wanted to post in reply to that would have got me banned from the forum.

When i was out of work i still had my phone, a big TV a games console and all the "luxuries" you refer to i wanted a job but could not find one as hundreds of people were made redundant at the shipyard at the same time i was, these "luxuries" kept me sane in the long boring months ahead where i tried desperately to get a job.

When people are out of work and things break their parents often replace them as mine did when the washing machine broke, curtain twitchers like you would be saying look at that scrounging git getting a new washing machine he should get his lazy **** off the chair and get a job.

I'm in complete agreement. Apologies the sarcasm didn't come through. I was trying to parody the previos message. You've been really restrained thanks Chippy!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I'm in complete agreement. Apologies the sarcasm didn't come through. I was trying to parody the previos message. You've been really restrained thanks Chippy!

No apology needed you are entitled to post your views, my post was a bit over the top but i needed to post it as there are people (not aimed at you) who think all people on benefit are scroungers and this in not the case..

.

 

[trueblue]

To go back to the original post Marcus Rashford came from a single parent home where his Mum was working but struggled to feed the family on the pittance she was paid so hats off to him for doing what he is doing. This government seem to have more than enough money to reward the people at the very top of the pile at the expense of those a the bottom while using sound bites about leveling up. A friend of mine who is retired helps out at a food bank has told me so many of their "customers" are working people who have seen the cost of living exceed their income over the last few years.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I wonder if all those who snipe and gripe about those claiming benefits would be prepared to pay more for their every item and service they consume if it was guaranteed that those af every part of the supply chain both here and overseas would earn a living wage?

I somehow doubt it. Capitalism needs the poor if only to use as a scapegoat it needs most people to be 'hard working families', providing for themselves and their children that they don't notice people like Jacob Rees Mogg a different game. They're not worrying about the next two, five or ten years. They're playing the long game because they already have enough. They're thinking about their grandchildren and great grandchildren. They're paying people to tell them where to put their money so they can be 'tax efficient'.

 

[EsterBanana]

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I think @Chippy_Tea can close this thread now. @EsterBanana has done a magnificent job of summing up the problem.

 

[EsterBanana]

I sincerely wish I could take credit for that little graphic, I don't know who did it, but it is spot on isn't it!

 

[johncrobinson]

There was a very similar one years and years ago.
I dont know who did it but it was pre-internet.

Good though isint it along with a very nice picture of the minister for the 18th century.

 

[EsterBanana]

a very nice picture of the minister for the 18th century

Yep, The Last Victorians!

 

[devexwarrior]

It never cease to amaze me how people think it’s OK for children to go without food if they are unfortunate enough to be born to bad parents - yet they show indifference to the rich who routinely exploit a tax system already rigged in their favour.
Your vitriol is so misplaced it is actually incredulous.
This country has more than enough money to feed and house every family but we chose to tax labour higher than capital gains, which will only ever benefit the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

Fine, go live in a communist country that espouses the truly egalitarian approach. North Korea or Venezuela spring to mind. People have choices. The state can intervene when things get critical but like it or not if the feral underclass prefer to spend their money on **** and booze and give their children minimal basic food, there's not much the rest of us can do about it - but I can still say that I disagree with those life choice (for choice they are). Who are 'the rich', successful, hard working people? OK there may be an element of luck involved but life is like that. There are some people who are taller, cleverer, better singers etc than others.

There now on ignore

 

[Brewnaldo]

Fine, go live in a communist country that espouses the truly egalitarian approach. North Korea or Venezuela spring to mind. People have choices. The state can intervene when things get critical but like it or not if the feral underclass prefer to spend their money on **** and booze and give their children minimal basic food, there's not much the rest of us can do about it - but I can still say that I disagree with those life choice (for choice they are). Who are 'the rich', successful, hard working people? OK there may be an element of luck involved but life is like that. There are some people who are taller, cleverer, better singers etc than others.

"The feral underclass"

Good grief man. Go and have a word with yourself.

 

[EsterBanana]

Fine, go live in a communist country that espouses the truly egalitarian approach. North Korea or Venezuela spring to mind. People have choices. The state can intervene when things get critical but like it or not if the feral underclass prefer to spend their money on **** and booze and give their children minimal basic food, there's not much the rest of us can do about it - but I can still say that I disagree with those life choice (for choice they are). Who are 'the rich', successful, hard working people? OK there may be an element of luck involved but life is like that. There are some people who are taller, cleverer, better singers etc than others.

There now on ignore

I find it interesting that often the only alternative suggested to all out "we don't care if we starve children for profit capitalism" is the absolute extreme of communism... where is the moderation?

Extreme communism isn't a solution either, but I do believe that there is something in-between, you know, just like we have right now, but better managed and funded. I really don't see what the problem is with trying to help people. I don't think just giving handouts is the answer, there should be less emphasis on punitive aspects of social security and a lot more invested in positive interventions.

Social care should be about making people's lives better and helping them do well, not abandoning them because they, for whatever reason, have addictions they can't easily control.

p.s. I AM the 'feral underclass' - but you know what, I got some help, and sorted some things out and now I am doing a lot better because someone gave me a chance at an education. I believe people can turn their lives around and that a lot more has to do with environment and support than luck or anything else. I spend a significant part of my life using the skills I gained to help other people in some way. I never thought of it like this way before, but in some way this aspect of my life is similar to Sir Rashford's. More of this please. If you had it your way, I would still be 'feral' and wouldn't be helping others. That's just how life can be if you give it a chance.

p.p.s. I do like grammar, did you mean "They're now on ignore"?

'There' can be used as an adjective, a noun or an adverb, none of which make sense in your sentence.

 

[johncrobinson]

A communist country.
Davewarrior For gods sake man get a grip
We are talking about kids and there future here.

 

[devexwarrior]

Thread unignored to correct a few misunderstandings - Feral underclass was perhaps an mismatch. I substitute criminal underclass (Which I hope does not include those here). Communism is an extreme example, but useful for comparison - how's the future looking in North Korea? What we have at present is far from ideal an clearly not working at a micro level but functions at a macro level, but having seen nation-(re)building in the most apocalyptic war environments at first hand (and been part of that rebuilding process) demanding that more money be thrown at a problem only embeds the problem and wastes money. It was done correctly in Germany (or at least the Western Part and Japan and done appallingly in Iraq and Afghanistan.

No personal insult is intended towards any thread user or their circumstances, but day in an day out I see and deal with a layer of society that choses to take and abuse what the state has to offer without even a semblance of giving anything back so please don't be surprised if my experiences taint my opinions.

I'll leave the thread un-ignored for the moment, but will not be taking any more active part in it and will be back off to the beer bit.

When I typed There on ignore, I meant Thread on Ignore.

 

[EsterBanana]

I am going to address the points you make separately in an attempt to be clear and helpful

Feral underclass was perhaps an mismatch. I substitute criminal underclass (Which I hope does not include those here)

What if it did? Are you saying that once a criminal always a criminal and there's no possibility of reform, and by extension no possibility of membership of a community?

Communism is an extreme example, but useful for comparison

Useful? The only way I see it being useful here is as a way to ridicule and demean the possibility of some good coming from helping people.

demanding that more money be thrown at a problem only embeds the problem and wastes money

Agreed, but the money is being thrown anyway, what I am suggesting is that it is used more efficiently and for positive intervention. By positive intervention I mean working with people to help them get out of the destructive cycles they find themselves in and stopping penalising them because, as you rightly point out, punishment does not work.

When I typed There on ignore, I meant Thread on Ignore.

I am sorry you feel as though you need to ignore this, I firmly believe that the only way forward is to have meaningful discussions. I am trying to understand your position, I just find it full of hopeless negativity. If what you say is true, then we should all just give up helping any one, let children starve, let criminals carry on committing crimes, build more prisons, etc.

I have to believe there is a better way...

p.s. if you wish to duck out of this discussion that's totally fine, but I think it will be a small loss for the community and a bit sad. I do understand the need to switch off though and yes, after all it is a forum about beer, so by all means... do beer things instead

Best wishes

 

[devexwarrior]

As you seem to want me to stay, I will. No, a current criminal will not always be so. There are many who commit crime then never do so again, but there are many who see it as a way of life.

You disagree with my references to communism, ok, that's your view. I speak from some knowledge, being a scholar of Russian history and language as well as modern warfare (much of which involved communism).

 

[johncrobinson]

Yes I used to know criminals in London
The thing that bothers me years later Was they thought this was the only way of getting ahead

 

[EsterBanana]

As you seem to want me to stay, I will.

Good :)

No, a current criminal will not always be so. There are many who commit crime then never do so again, but there are many who see it as a way of life.

Well that is something.

I am curious as to how you imagine reform taking place?

You disagree with my references to communism, ok, that's your view. I speak from some knowledge, being a scholar of Russian history and language as well as modern warfare (much of which involved communism).

It's not that I disagree with them, you are clearly much more well educated and experienced in these extreme forms of government than I am, it's just that I think it's not relevant, we're talking about 'starving children in the UK', communism has no stake here that I can see?