Marcus Rashford becomes MBE

[Clint]

Yes I agree there's people out there definitely need a leg up and also those who will always depend on benefits of some description through no fault of their own.
But there are plenty out there who blatantly refuse to work...never have and never will,but they have "stuff".

 

[EsterBanana]

I don't have time to wonder why people are where they are and it's not my job. I deal with the 'now'. I go to them when they are in danger, or hurt, or fighting (with themselves or others). I would love to be able to solve the problems of the world but I can't. I'm just the last resort. The one emergency service the cannot and never will say 'No". I've gone into houses where I have had to say that the children the leaving with me (Section 46 Children's Act 1989) and the parents have been arrested. I've cut teenage suicides down and done CPR on people who's sporting events have gone horribly wrong or have just reached the end of their alotted time on earth.

I tell the MH cases that I go to every single shift that if all else fails, call 999 and ask for the police. We may not be MH experts, but WE WILL ALWAYS COME and we do, we always come. Sometimes it's a false alarm, sometimes we get there in time and sometimes we don't.

Why did the ex-RAF man refuse help? Because that was his choice and when he made it I had to accept it. It was easier for him to continue the way he was.

You want my job? You are welcome to it. My colleagues tell me that after a full Army career I'm mad to do the job. I need to have a difficult job to prove to myself that I can do it. I do the job, I do it right and I'll keep on doing it for the next few year until I reach compulsory retirement .

That is all.

While I admire what you do, seriously. full respect. what I don't understand is the judgement you associate with it. If you want to do what you do why conflate issues that you are not prepared to address. Just do what you do and leave it at that and skip the part where you turn around and say the things you have about the people you are helping. There's no need and it is not helpful in any way in my opinion. as you say. it's not your job, so why make it your leisure time activity.

 

[devexwarrior]

While I admire what you do, seriously. full respect. what I don't understand is the judgement you associate with it. If you want to do what you do why conflate issues that you are not prepared to address. Just do what you do and leave it at that and skip the part where you turn around and say the things you have about the people you are helping. There's no need and it is not helpful in any way in my opinion. as you say. it's not your job, so why make it your leisure time activity.

Fair comment - I'm still a human being with my own values and standards. I can deal with a situation objectively but still be annoyed with people. I'm at odds with your comment about making it my leisure activity. I'm spending a few minutes on 'soshal meeja'. I'm responding to questions. I don't want to get into any arguments but I have a professional view that is relevant. Humans are judgemental creatures. I do not have to like the people I deal with, but I deal with them fairly. If Scumbag McScumface is a victim of crime, I will treat him the same as I'd treat you, your mother or my mother. Fairly. It is sometimes hard when the local pond life are complaining, but we do record the crime and investigate just the same.

 

[EsterBanana]

Fair comment - I'm still a human being with my own values and standards. I can deal with a situation objectively but still be annoyed with people. I'm at odds with your comment about making it my leisure activity. I'm spending a few minutes on 'soshal meeja'. I'm responding to questions. I don't want to get into any arguments but I have a professional view that is relevant. Humans are judgemental creatures. I do not have to like the people I deal with, but I deal with them fairly. If Scumbag McScumface is a victim of crime, I will treat him the same as I'd treat you, your mother or my mother. Fairly. It is sometimes hard when the local pond life are complaining, but we do record the crime and investigate just the same.

I admit there are aspects of what you say that I have to learn about, we are obviously very different people, I have been 'that' person that someone like you helped so I can understand it from the other side and how easy it can be for The Fall to happen... I did turn my life around, and again and again.

Rather than see this as an argument I would absolutely be 100% happy to see it as two people with different life experiences and perspectives sharing their knowledge in a way that we can grow to make thing better somehow.

I don't know you, you don't know me, it's friday night, I am a little tipsy and I said I was retiring a few minutes ago... how about we take a breather, think about things and check in again soon.

I am sorry if I offended with my leisure time comment, it just seemed a shame when you are obviously a very good kind hearted person,, that's all.

 

[devexwarrior]

No offence taken, good night and sleep well.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I suspect any reports of people being given iPhones is a half truth and probably reported as such by the likes of The Daily Mail.what wouldn't surprise me is if a charity is distributing old smart phones or computers to people in need.

The modern world is increasing difficult to live in without being connected. Banking for example. I think my nearest bank is a 20 or 30 minute bus ride away. And I live in a London borough. Looking for a job. Applying for a job (though you may be lucky enough to have a library that is open abd has computers).

Some of the biggest recipients of benefits are large companies. They pay below a living wage which is then topped up by the taxpayer in the form of benefits.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I suspect any reports of people being given iPhones is a half truth and probably reported as such by the likes of The Daily Mail.what wouldn't surprise me is if a charity is distributing old smart phones or computers to people in need.

The modern world is increasing difficult to live in without being connected. Banking for example. I think my nearest bank is a 20 or 30 minute bus ride away. And I live in a London borough. Looking for a job. Applying for a job (though you may be lucky enough to have a library that is open abd has computers).

Some of the biggest recipients of benefits are large companies. They pay below a living wage which is then topped up by the taxpayer in the form of benefits.

Quite. I'm quite surprised that we haven't yet seen "lip fillers" thrown in yet as it seems to be the latest lazy trope directed at people we see as our lessers.

I said in another thread that now that the pesky foreigners have been dealt with via Brexit, the next in the firing line will be the indigenous poor. This thread is a good example of how that narrative will go.

We even seen mumsnet used as a citation for the clearly nonsense myth that its better to be on benefits than work, which in 99% of cases, is an undiluted lie.

 

[EsterBanana]

We even seen mumsnet used as a citation for the clearly nonsense myth that its better to be on benefits than work, which in 99% of cases, is an undiluted lie.

Wow... you actually just called me a liar to my face!

Personal experience here of exactly this. You clearly have never actually been in this situation because if you had you would not be being so hateful and vicious nasty!

There's always one...

 

[johncrobinson]

Precicely Binkei

My massive TV was donated to me by a charity.
My phone came from the council so i could call for help during lockdown.
My laptop I inherited from a friend,A thankyou for all the help I gave him as he lay dieing of lung cancer.
Oh and my Nikon camera as well.

The misrible pittance I get would have payed for none of these things.

 

[ChrisR73]

It is not the government's job to feed children, it is the parents' and welfare/benefits are sufficient to do this.

It never cease to amaze me how people think it’s OK for children to go without food if they are unfortunate enough to be born to bad parents - yet they show indifference to the rich who routinely exploit a tax system already rigged in their favour.
Your vitriol is so misplaced it is actually incredulous.
This country has more than enough money to feed and house every family but we chose to tax labour higher than capital gains, which will only ever benefit the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

 

[EsterBanana]

Precicely Binkei

My massive TV was donated to me by a charity.
My phone came from the council so i could call for help during lockdown.
My laptop I inherited from a friend,A thankyou for all the help I gave him as he lay dieing of lung cancer.
Oh and my Nikon camera as well.

The misrible pittance I get would have payed for none of these things.

That's great, I am glad you have been on the receiving end of some care and generosity.

I have a friend in a similar situation, always been a grafter, but got left absolutely floored by a health issue, there's some support from the government by way of social services, and a lot of support from family and friends. He has a nice TV too, better than mine, but then he can hardly move, so he fully deserves a better tv than me in my opinion.

There is part of me that wishes The Fall on these uncaring, unsympathetic people who attack those less fortunate than themselves... but I am not actually that mean! I hope they don't ever have to go through this experience to know what it is like first hand, I just hope they can see beyond the hatred one day, somehow.

==

Absolutely not impressed, so lets take a sensible look at minimum wage and how that pans out if you have one child to look after:

Minimum Wage: £1447.90 a month!

https://www.payrolloptions.com/national-minimum-wage-2021/
Average rent: Average rent price in the UK (Q1 2021) is £587 pcm. If you exclude inner London it's £492 pcm

https://www.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-landlords/average-rent-uk
Council Tax: It varies but lets say £100 a month.

https://propertydata.co.uk/council-tax
Gas / Electric / Water: £95 per month

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org....he-average-gas-and-electricity-bill-per-month
Average food cost: £140 a month (again a low estimate)

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-uk-household-cost-food
That's £800 a month before even starting, going to work involves additional costs as we all know, lets be generous and just count the commute:

Average cost of commute: £100 a month (this is a low estimate)

http://hrnews.co.uk/survey-reveals-...-one-week-a-year-commuting-at-a-cost-of-1738/
"As the average cost of putting a child in a nursery part-time is over £7,000 in 2021, many families have to plan their budget carefully to cover the fees."

https://www.daynurseries.co.uk/advice/childcare-costs-how-much-do-you-pay-in-the-uk
Lets be kind and say £6000 a year to make it a round even £500 a month!

That's the entirety of the disposable income of a minimum wage...

How is this a lie?

If you disagree, that's fine, but if you want to argue about it then at least be decent enough to actually give a sensible example as I have done here to prove your point instead of just throwing words carelessly around.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Wow... you actually just called me a liar to my face!

Personal experience here of exactly this. You clearly have never actually been in this situation because if you had you would not be being so hateful and vicious nasty!

There's always one...

I didnt, but by all means carry on with that narrative if it helps. As for myself, I wont be accepting anecdotal experience or opinions off mumsnet as evidence of something that has been laid out repeatedly as nonsense except for in rare sets of very specific circumstances. Its a lazy trope, one designed to villify people who in reality are on the breadline, for purely political purposes.

The hateful, vicious content, is most certainly from those sneering about other people having iphones and flatscreen tv's etc, and passing comment on who deserves what in society based on their own preconceptions.

 

[EsterBanana]

I didnt, but by all means carry on with that narrative if it helps. As for myself, I wont be accepting anecdotal experience or opinions off mumsnet as evidence of something that has been laid out repeatedly as nonsense except for in rare sets of very specific circumstances. Its a lazy trope, one designed to villify people who in reality are on the breadline, for purely political purposes.

The hateful, vicious content, is most certainly from those sneering about other people having iphones and flatscreen tv's etc, and passing comment on who deserves what in society based on their own preconceptions.

Er, it was me who quoted the stories posted by actual mums on mums net, I have had first hand personal experience of this exact situation, and know several people for whom gong to work would be hardly worth it, one recently said they would be £30 a week better off... for a full time job!! And you say it's a lie because vague hand waving unreferenced laying out of nonsense?

How is that not calling me a liar to my face. or were you hoping that I wouldn't notice and you were speaking to everyone except me so it wasn't actually to my face... nice!!

By all means carry on and delude yourself that you are somehow not being highly offensive and dismissive of something you clearly know nothing about if it helps.

I think you are a bit confused. Lets leave it at that.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Er, it was me who quoted the stories posted by actual mums on mums net, I have had first hand personal experience of this exact situation, and know several people for whom gong to work would be hardly worth it, one recently said they would be £30 a week better off... for a full time job!! And you say it's a lie because vague hand waving unreferenced laying out of nonsense?

How is that not calling me a liar to my face. or were you hoping that I wouldn't notice and you were speaking to everyone except me so it wasn't actually to my face... nice!!

By all means carry on and delude yourself that you are somehow not being highly offensive and dismissive of something you clearly know nothing about if it helps.

I think you are a bit confused. Lets leave it at that.

Going to have to offer you my apologies here, I got you confused with another poster. Whilst I do have an issue with anecdotal stories being used to try and prove a point, I misinterpreted the point you were trying to prove because I confused you with the guy devexwarrior.

 

[m_kc]

Is it a nasty take on life to expect people to want to work for a living? I am not expecting genuinely unemployed people to not get some kind of help from the government. What I detest is people who do not work with entitlement issues who think they should have the same kind of life as those people who do. It is right and proper than benefits should cover the basics not luxuries, it gives people an incentive to go out there and make a life for themselves. I'm sorry but if you are struggling then you should not have Sky telly and the latest smart phone. It makes me bloody angry to have to pay for things for my children when some other people rely on the government to pay it for theirs. I firmly believe it is a generational thing and that there is just too much handed out on a plate nowadays. People used to feel ashamed of having to rely on handouts, now it feels like working families who pay their own way are in the minority.

There are approximately 1.5M people unemployed in the UK but 1.1M job vacancies yet we are screaming to let people come in from abroad to fill the positions.

If only we could find a way of stripping people of luxuries, that would motivate them. I think we should have more control over people, as it's a fair system, and as long as everyone just gets up nice and early for work everything would be fine
Edit: this is sarcasm, may not have come through. Couldn't disagree with the previous post more strongly.

 

[EsterBanana]

Going to have to offer you my apologies here, I got you confused with another poster. Whilst I do have an issue with anecdotal stories being used to try and prove a point, I misinterpreted the point you were trying to prove because I confused you with the guy devexwarrior.

Accepted graciously and with a laugh... no worries at all, I did think it was strange as we seemed to be aligned on other issues.

Onward and upward

 

[johncrobinson]

A very interesting debate going on here guys, keep it going.
But please express all your views without personal insults.

I for one am keen to hear what you ALL have to say.

 

[johncrobinson]

Yes Ester Banana, I was a grafter,Until a car smash robbed me of my health.

You never know whats just around the corner.

 

[EsterBanana]

Yes Ester Banana, I was a grafter,Until a car smash robbed me of my health.

You never know whats just around the corner.

This is terrible, I am very sorry that this happened to you, I hope there is some possibility of recovery.

...and I agree, I treat every day as though it is my last, because, well... it actually might be!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If only we could find a way of stripping people of luxuries, that would motivate them.

I hade to remind myself that posting what i wanted to post in reply to that would have got me banned from the forum.

When i was out of work i still had my phone, a big TV a games console and all the "luxuries" you refer to i wanted a job but could not find one as hundreds of people were made redundant at the shipyard at the same time i was, these "luxuries" kept me sane in the long boring months ahead where i tried desperately to get a job.

When people are out of work and things break their parents often replace them as mine did when the washing machine broke, curtain twitchers like you would be saying look at that scrounging git getting a new washing machine he should get his lazy arse off the chair and get a job.