Making a DIY all in one brewing system?

[Berry454]

So I’m looking into getting started with all grain brewing and I would like to make myself a sort of all in one brewing system similar to the grainfather. I would settle for a biab setup but I doubt you can go this large with biab?

The container I want to use for my all in one brewing system is a 100 litre polsineli stainless steel fermenter. It’s already drilled and threaded at the base to incorporate a screw in stainless steel tap.

I would like to dismantle some kettles and use the heating elements from them for heating my system. The kettles I’m looking at are 2200w elements. If I installed two of these I would have 4400w of power.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can make this happen?

How I would go about installing old kettle elements into a stainless steel fermenter?

I’m comfortable drilling and cutting stainless steel but welding is way out of my capabilities.

I think the biggest challenge will be either finding a basket to suspend inside the fermenter to hold the grain or finding a biab bag which will be big enough?

I want to use the Polsineli 100 litre fermenter as my vessel because I got two of them off eBay for £60 and they never get used. I use one of them once a year for brewing 4 winexpert kits all at once but that wine lasts me for at least a year! So the other one literally never gets used.

These Polaineli fermenters hold heat really well. I remember I once made a wine kit and accidentally got it way over temperature to 35 degrees Celsius. I had to wait to pitch the yeast and the next morning it was still 33 degrees Celsius! It was a whole 24 hours before it dropped down to temperature and I was able to pitch yeast.

Any advice that anyone can give would be most appreciated.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I'd reconsider using kettle elements. They are high density and often lead to scorching of wort. Have a look on Homebrew websites for some low-density elements that are more suits to the job.

 

[MashBag]

I doubt you can go this large with biab?

Oh yes you can. You just need to include a hoist for much over 10kg of grain, cos wet is nearly double.

How I would go about installing old kettle elements into a stainless steel fermenter?

Kettle elements like a flat surface to mate to. So you might need to consider soldering stainless (yes) or getting a local chap to tig weld it.

Elements on sanitary clamps are another option. Bit more money though.

I think the biggest challenge will be either finding a basket to suspend inside the fermenter to hold the grain or finding a biab bag which will be big enough?

Sew a big bag. There are guys who sell them too.

Or get a big stainless filter basket used by the biofuel chaps.

 

[MashBag]

If I installed two of these I would have 4400w of power.

That is right up there for a domestic UK ring main

 

[Nicks90]

That is right up there for a domestic UK ring main

Have long leads to each element and have them plugged in to 2 sockets
:-)


Don't, by the way, was joking.

 

[Berry454]

I'd reconsider using kettle elements. They are high density and often lead to scorching of wort. Have a look on Homebrew websites for some low-density elements that are more suits to the job.

The only reason I was considering kettle elements is because they come with a gasket and a flange which allows them to be mounted into the kettle without welding or soldering.

Though I do see your point and I will have a look at some websites for home brew elements that come with weldless bulkheads.

Though from what I have seen the weldless install elements are super expensive!

I’ll try and find a cheaper alternative though!

 

[Berry454]

Oh yes you can. You just need to include a hoist for much over 10kg of grain, cos wet is nearly double.



Kettle elements like a flat surface to mate to. So you might need to consider soldering stainless (yes) or getting a local chap to tig weld it.

Elements on sanitary clamps are another option. Bit more money though.



Sew a big bag. There are guys who sell them too.

Or get a big stainless filter basket used by the biofuel chaps.

Well after reading your post I done some research and it seems a quick check of the malt miller reveals 100 litre biab bags!! I’m shocked haha!

When you say a joist what does this mean exactly? Do you mean a false bottom or similar to keep the bag off the elements and the base of the kettle?

Regarding the elements do you not think I’d be able to mount kettle elements directly into the kettle using the gasket and flange from the kettle?

Though I’m definitely considering proper home brew elements due to the scorching issue: Not sure this will be feasible though because as you mentioned the weldless bulkheads and to fittings for elements can be seriously expensive!

 

[Berry454]

That is right up there for a domestic UK ring main

Wow so would I honestly not be able to run 2 x 2.2kw kettle elements at once?

Even if I plugged them both in separate sockets in separate rooms?

Would just be a slight issue as 2.2kw in a 100 litre kettle is nothing!

 

[Berry454]

So the plan so far is as follows.

• 100 litre polsineli stainless steel vessel.
• Heating elements directly through side of vessel about 5 inches from base. Undecided on whether to use kettle elements or how much power I can safely run.
• 100 litre grain BIAB bag
• False base that is around 47cm in diameter. So the BIAB bag has something to sit on and it separates the bag from the tap and heating elements. Though this does present an issue as I can only find ready made false base plates in 40 or 50cm sizes nothing for the 47mm diameter or my kettle. I may have to make this out of plastic maybe?
• False base above will sit on a frame which will be a 15mm X shaped copper pipe fitting with a short length of copper tube going out of each of the 4 ends. Then with an elbow fitting on the end of each of these pipes. Creating a nice X shaped base for the false base to sit on.
• 15mm tank connector which will sit next to the elements below the false base. Pump will be connected to this. Copper pipe will then be connected to the other end of the tank connector on the outside of the vessel and this pipe will tank the liquid back up into the top of the kettle. This is optional and I’m not really sure how to implement this or if it is even required.
• Cheap PID controller off Amazon for controlling the temperature.

Does this all sound like it would work as an all in one brewing system? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated!

I’ve planned most of this around the DIY plastic fermenter bin kettles that people like to make on here. Just adapted for my metal vessel.

 

[MashBag]

When you say a joist what does this mean exactly? Do you mean a false bottom or similar to keep the bag off the elements and the base of the kettle?

I said hoist your had me going there I thought I had a typo.

You will need a electric hoist and a trolley to get the bag out of the tank.

https://www.toolstation.com/hilka-e...d=_dm&pcrid=&pkw=&pmt=&gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds

 

[MashBag]

I get you are using a 100 litre tank you already have but how much beer do you want to make per batch?

 

[MashBag]

Regarding the elements do you not think I’d be able to mount kettle elements directly into the kettle using the gasket and flange from the kettle?

No.

The side wall of the tank is curved
The gasket is flat.
It will leak.

Welding isn't just joining it is also filling.

Not welding or soldering will impact your options (and the price) drastically imo.

 

[MashBag]

seriously expensive!

If seriously expensive is a problem may I say, I really think you have started in the wrong place with "I have got a 100 l tank"

It's stainless. Heavy. Industrial and not very workable. 100l is a larger than normal homebrew setup. So the processes become expensive too. I don't have a problem with that. My winery is the same.
BUT.. You could easily spend a fortune and never get where you want to be. Speaking as a friend.

Better might..
"how much beer do I drink? " or
"how much can I comfortably make?"

 

[Cwrw666]

Have a look at BrewBuilder, they stock all kinds of vessels and fittings for building your own system. Including elements of course.
I would have thought a domestic ring main could easily handle 2 elements. If in doubt run one from your cooker socket which is on a different circuit.

 

[Nicks90]

When you say a joist what does this mean exactly? Do you mean a false bottom or similar to keep the bag off the elements and the base of the kettle?


No, he means that if you are making a 100l brew, you will probably be using a significant amount of grain. I use 4kg for a 21l brew, so you could be adding 15kg of grain if you're aiming for 80l of wort. Then add water absorption and you will be trying to lift out 30kg from the kettle.
That's heeeeaaaavy

 

[Sadfield]

So I’m looking into getting started with all grain brewing and I would like to make myself a sort of all in one brewing system similar to the grainfather.

Whilst possible, trying to learn and perfect the brewing process, whilst simultaneously ironing out all the issues with a brew kit made on the cheap, sounds like a real battle.

Better might..
"how much beer do I drink? " or
"how much can I comfortably make?"

Answering these sort of questions and buy the kit that suits your needs, rather trying to fit the process to the kit, will be more rewarding and cost effective longterm.

The advantage of good quality stainless kit, is that it should hold value reasonably well. Selling the Polsinelli, rather than devaluing them by cutting holes in them, would be worth serious consideration. You've got to be very sure a 100L homemade system is what you need, before you create scrap metal.

 

[MashBag]

You've got to be very sure a 100L homemade system is what you need, before you create scrap metal.

Bit harsh

 

[Tanglefoot]

You could always save yourself the complications of fitting 2 x elements and
drilling holes in your steel fermenter by
going down the gas burner route with something like this
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/7-5kw-gas-burner-and-stand/?v=79cba1185463
As already pointed out for anything over 5 gallons you'll need a hoist to lift the bag which may dictate where you're able to brew I.e somewhere you can fit a pulley overhead.

 

[peebee]

... Then add water absorption and you will be trying to lift out 30kg from the kettle.
That's heeeeaaaavy

Worse still:

You don't want to just lift the bag out. It needs to be lifted and held a while to drain. And "a while" ... currently I'm draining for at least an hour. And there must be no chance the bag can fall back into a boiler full of very hot, sticky, and scolding, wort. This is not the time to have skimped on the hoist arrangements.

I've been looking to a similar project to convert my 100L 3V system to a sort of "one-pot". If you want to manage the temperature of the mash, some sort of recirculation will be necessary. A big bag of grain hovering over an element won't get you anywhere. And size of element: Currently I'm using a Grainfather G70 (70 stands for "litres") and it's using a 2900W element. It is enough (just) for boiling a 40-45L batch, but I'm not looking forward to trying it with a 65L batch! My 3V system has 6000W elements (effectively 3x2000W elements wired together) and a special 45A circuit. I use Grainfather systems in fancy "BIAB Emulation" mode ... they are basically "BIAB" setups with recirculation and a "full-metal-jacket" mashing bag.

Years ago, I was discussing thermo-probe positioning in one-pot, HERMS and RIMS systems. Here go: Pumps and PIDs

 

[Sadfield]

Bit harsh

But true. No one wants FV's with holes in the sides.