Lots of foam when bottling with syphon and bottling stick

[Brendan124]

Hi guys, new here.

I have brewed about ten kits so far and hav'nt had a problem but lately after getting a bottling stick I have noticed that my last batch had a really strong after taste which is hard to describe. The first few times I used the stick there were no problems but now there seems to be loads of air bubbles in the syphon pipe which then go into the bottles and foam them up pretty badly, sometimes the bottles are just over half full but the rest is full of foam.

Is this putting too much oxygen in the beer and creating the after taste and what could be causing the bubbles?

Thanks in advance.

 

[guyb]

I've never had foam with the mini bottler, do you have any pics?

Have you been using washing-up liquid perchance?

what does the after taste taste like?

what do you sterilise with?

 

[Darcey]

Make sure there is no leaks in the syphon tube and the bottling stick. I have had afew problems with foaming when I first tried this. If i get a really foamy beer when bottling I bottle the lot then return to the first bottle to top it up. had no problems with taste. I have started purging the bottles with a little CO2 blast from my regulator or using a CO2 injector bulb.

 

[Brendan124]

Sorry don't have any pics. At the start I used youngs powder sanatiser but have since used a thin bleach in water and steep the bottles for 20 mins then rinse the bottles about five times in cold water.
I only have the siphon connected little bottler to cut down on the possibility of leaks at joints where air could get in. I really can't describe the taste as it like nothing I've tasted before.

 

[adomant]

sorry if this sounds obvious but is the other end of the syphon hose sufficiently under the surface of the beer in the fermenting bucket ?

 

[Brendan124]

Yeah I clip it to the side of the fermentor and put it well down into the beer. Can't understand where the air is coming from myself. The only other place would where the siphon joins the bottling stick but I put it on as tight as possible and I know its on well cos its a right pain in the **** to get off.

 

[PhatFil]

any rough edge or turbulence thro the syphon may act as a 'catalyst' to release any co2 dissolved in the beer. also if you passing cold beer thru a warm syphon into warm bottles in a warm room the change in temp will also trigger the release of co2 dissolved in your beer.. Also a high syphon head will exaggerate any such effect

the funny taste tho? thats a mystery not a bleachy taste is it?, joke im sure you have looked at that and 5 times is a good rinse.. have you considerd using a sodium metabisulphate solution to neutralise the bleach prior to rinseing, ( a 20% solution in a sprey bottle n just give everything you have bleached a squirt)

I dont like syphons, too hands on 100% of the time and 3 hands are always needed, but a second bod will just get in the way...my botteling method is to stick a tap with a hozelock male end on all my fermentation vessels, i have 25cm 10mm clear pipe bodged into a hzelock female fitting one end and a simple brewshop tap on the other end. if filling only bottles i wedge the bucket back end up on a tilt a few days in advance, then when botteling / kegging i snap on the short clear tube with a tap open the bucket tap and use the small tap on the end of the tube to control the flow on n off into each bottle. if kegging i only bottle 5-6 bottles so i dont bother wedging up the bucket, i bottle first and then tip the bucket as needed to get the last of the clean beer off the sediment. a lot easier i find..

 

[Brendan124]

Thanks for the reply PhatFil, It might not be a bad to cut out the syphon, I've tried three different ones now and thought I had nailed it with the bottling stick. I've ordered a simple syphon with a tap on the end and if I have no joy with it ill maybe try your method. By the way the after taste in the beer has really subsided and is actually very drinkable now, reckon in a few weeks it will be perfect.

 

[PhatFil]

Thanks for the reply PhatFil, It might not be a bad to cut out the syphon, I've tried three different ones now and thought I had nailed it with the bottling stick. I've ordered a simple syphon with a tap on the end and if I have no joy with it ill maybe try your method. By the way the after taste in the beer has really subsided and is actually very drinkable now, reckon in a few weeks it will be perfect.

Sounds like you may be too eager to sample :) if the taste is dissipating with age, your beer is just undergoing its conditioning i would say. and you have just tasted young beer, stash a couple of bottles for christmass and see how good it will taste then.

racking off with a syphon when done by someone not kack handed like me will always leave more sediment behind and give a better result..

 

[Bertie Doe]

Thanks for the reply PhatFil, It might not be a bad to cut out the syphon, I've tried three different ones now and thought I had nailed it with the bottling stick. I've ordered a simple syphon with a tap on the end and if I have no joy with it ill maybe try your method. By the way the after taste in the beer has really subsided and is actually very drinkable now, reckon in a few weeks it will be perfect.

Sounds like you may be too eager to sample :) if the taste is dissipating with age, your beer is just undergoing its conditioning i would say. and you have just tasted young beer, stash a couple of bottles for christmass and see how good it will taste then.

racking off with a syphon when done by someone not kack handed like me will always leave more sediment behind and give a better result..

Phil your point about bottling too early sounds right. From Graham Wheeler's book "Bottling: All beer destined for bottling should be matured in a cask ....... ordinary beer 2 weeks in cask, strong beers up to a month, very strong - as long as your patience lasts" :drunk:
It's in his 'Full Mash Section' can we assume this rule would apply to kits? I guess racking into a plastic secondary fermenter, would count as 'casking'?

Brendan, you mentioned ordering a syphon with tap - is it the Youngs Syphon? I used to struggle with foaming some of my kits, in particular Muntons Bock (yummy). From my stash, I cut of a 270mm length of 10mm tube and attached it to the tap.The weight of this extra tubing, gives you hands-free syphoning (well almost).If the bottom of the extension tube is too close to the bottom of your bottle and the run-off is being compressed, there are 2 choices;
1. Trim off 10mm or so, or better still: 2.-trim off bottom of tube at 45 degrees,this will divert the outflow gently at rt angles. The tube has a natural (memory) curve, so don't trim on the outside or inside of curve, otherwise it will compress fluid against base or sidewall of bottle. Trim on side that is facing you - as per picture:-

 

[Brendan124]

Thanks for the reply PhatFil, It might not be a bad to cut out the syphon, I've tried three different ones now and thought I had nailed it with the bottling stick. I've ordered a simple syphon with a tap on the end and if I have no joy with it ill maybe try your method. By the way the after taste in the beer has really subsided and is actually very drinkable now, reckon in a few weeks it will be perfect.

Sounds like you may be too eager to sample :) if the taste is dissipating with age, your beer is just undergoing its conditioning i would say. and you have just tasted young beer, stash a couple of bottles for christmass and see how good it will taste then.

racking off with a syphon when done by someone not kack handed like me will always leave more sediment behind and give a better result..

Lol I know what you mean about drinking green beer and I've drunk plenty of it but the taste wasn't like that at all. It was green beer and the horrible aftertaste, when I made the kit I done 3 things differently from normal, used the bottling stick, used thin bleach to sanatise and held back about 120g of sugar from the 1kg you are supposed to put in with the wort at the start. My thinking was it would reduce the alcohol level a bit, not that I mind but my friend isnt a beer drinker and he reckons 3 or 4 pints of it blows the lid off him.

I had read about trying to avoid getting oxygen into your beer when bottling or transfering to secondary and heard it left an aftertaste and went with that theory. But now I think the foam might just have been the co2 in the beer and not air getting to the syphon.

 

[Brendan124]

Thanks for the reply PhatFil, It might not be a bad to cut out the syphon, I've tried three different ones now and thought I had nailed it with the bottling stick. I've ordered a simple syphon with a tap on the end and if I have no joy with it ill maybe try your method. By the way the after taste in the beer has really subsided and is actually very drinkable now, reckon in a few weeks it will be perfect.

Sounds like you may be too eager to sample :) if the taste is dissipating with age, your beer is just undergoing its conditioning i would say. and you have just tasted young beer, stash a couple of bottles for christmass and see how good it will taste then.

racking off with a syphon when done by someone not kack handed like me will always leave more sediment behind and give a better result..

Phil your point about bottling too early sounds right. From Graham Wheeler's book "Bottling: All beer destined for bottling should be matured in a cask ....... ordinary beer 2 weeks in cask, strong beers up to a month, very strong - as long as your patience lasts" :drunk:
It's in his 'Full Mash Section' can we assume this rule would apply to kits? I guess racking into a plastic secondary fermenter, would count as 'casking'?

Brendan, you mentioned ordering a syphon with tap - is it the Youngs Syphon? I used to struggle with foaming some of my kits, in particular Muntons Bock (yummy). From my stash, I cut of a 270mm length of 10mm tube and attached it to the tap.The weight of this extra tubing, gives you hands-free syphoning (well almost).If the bottom of the extension tube is too close to the bottom of your bottle and the run-off is being compressed, there are 2 choices;
1. Trim off 10mm or so, or better still: 2.-trim off bottom of tube at 45 degrees,this will divert the outflow gently at rt angles. The tube has a natural (memory) curve, so don't trim on the outside or inside of curve, otherwise it will compress fluid against base or sidewall of bottle. Trim on side that is facing you - as per picture:-

Yeah thats the one, got it in the post today and will give it a go with the pipe on the end lke you said., Cheers.

BTW how do you start the flow in the syphon? Was reading on here it can be done with a turkey baster, would be cool if it worked instead of filling it with water and messing about until it decides to work.

 

[Bertie Doe]

Yeah thats the one, got it in the post today and will give it a go with the pipe on the end lke you said., Cheers.

BTW how do you start the flow in the syphon? Was reading on here it can be done with a turkey baster, would be cool if it worked instead of filling it with water and messing about until it decides to work.

Hmm good point, if you are worried about infecting the brew, I guess you could prime the syphon with clean water. Personally, I've never tried it. I always open the tap, suck, close tap, then put extension tube into bottle - then release tap.
I mentioned hand-free syphoning earlier, I should add that I wedge a load of empty bottles into an empty washing-up bowl. This makes them rock solid and prevents them toppling over, when filling.

 

[Brendan124]

Hmm good point, if you are worried about infecting the brew, I guess you could prime the syphon with clean water. Personally, I've never tried it. I always open the tap, suck, close tap, then put extension tube into bottle - then release tap.
I mentioned hand-free syphoning earlier, I should add that I wedge a load of empty bottles into an empty washing-up bowl. This makes them rock solid and prevents them toppling over, when filling.[/quote]

Thanks for the advice, that sounds like less hassle, will give it a go.

 

[eggman]

I use a syphon with a tap the same as in the pic. To use mine i have a short piece about 3" attached to the tap suck the beer past the tap, close tap, discard the short piece and attach a longer bit that have beed sanitised and i'm good to go without contaminating my brew :thumb:

:

 

[Brendan124]

I use a syphon with a tap the same as in the pic. To use mine i have a short piece about 3" attached to the tap suck the beer past the tap, close tap, discard the short piece and attach a longer bit that have beed sanitised and i'm good to go without contaminating my brew :thumb:

:

Good tip.

Was thinking of using a non rise sanitiser instead of the bleach as it takes forever to properly rinse the bottles, any suggestions?

 

[bomberns127]

Sorry don't have any pics. At the start I used youngs powder sanatiser but have since used a thin bleach in water and steep the bottles for 20 mins then rinse the bottles about five times in cold water.
I only have the siphon connected little bottler to cut down on the possibility of leaks at joints where air could get in. I really can't describe the taste as it like nothing I've tasted before.

is 20mins enough time to soak with diluted bleach?
it maybe overkill but i tend to leave things a minimum of an hour before i rinse the bottles just to make sure every thing is sterile

 

[eggman]

If you want non rinse then use videne solution (available from most chemists) but it's only a sanitiser so you would still have to clean first. I use vwp as it cleans and sanitises, but you have to rinse thoroughly after

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