London attack.

[MyQul]

P.S. Glad your missus is OK.

Thanks. :hat:

 

[Dutto]

Today we are told that the perpetrator of the attack was a British Citizen and a "soldier of the Islamic State."

In truth, he was neither!

As a "British Citizen" he failed miserably to understand Primary School teachings of "fair play" and "tolerance of others".

As a "Soldier" he failed on every known and imaginable front; starting with killing indiscriminately and finishing with failing to disclosed his intentions to his perceived enemy.

Sorry, but at best he was a misguided fool who was following the teachings of evil people who don't represent any recognised culture or religion.

It's time that our media reported these facts and not the propaganda put out by the puppet-masters who were pulling this man's strings!

 

[geetee]

Today we are told that the perpetrator of the attack was a British Citizen and a "soldier of the Islamic State."

In truth, he was neither!

As a "British Citizen" he failed miserably to understand Primary School teachings of "fair play" and "tolerance of others".

As a "Soldier" he failed on every known and imaginable front; starting with killing indiscriminately and finishing with failing to disclosed his intentions to his perceived enemy.

Sorry, but at best he was a misguided fool who was following the teachings of evil people who don't represent any recognised culture or religion.

It's time that our media reported these facts and not the propaganda put out by the puppet-masters who were pulling this man's strings!

I read on the BBC that he was actually born in Britain and by right of Birth qualifies as a British citizen just as much as any mass murderer, drug dealer or rapist also born here.
I do not like nor defend his acts but it is no use disbarring him as a British citizen because he aligns with a religious belief that is alien to our culture just so that we can then use any previous heritage to demonise ALL those from abroad. I think most reasonable people get the message that it is ISIS and their followers who are to blame and not ALL moslems or ALL people from the Middle East, that way Donald Trump lies ( and I do mean lies!)

There are a number of people in the press who declare that Teresa May is making this up, it's a conspiracy to protect his true origins for PC reasons. Sometimes, however, the easiest, most obvious answer is the best one, he is by definition a British individual wrongly (in most people eyes) following a narrow extremist fundamentalist terror group and we have to accept that it is not always those from abroad who are the nasty ones , some who are born here are just as bad and we have to deal with them here and now!

 

[Clint]

The thing is they won't deal with them. On the news earlier it was stated that they have lots of people identified as dangerous fundamentalists etc etc.....perhaps they should round them up,put them on a boat and drop them off in a country that practices their ideals and leave them to it...

 

[Tripster]

The thing is they won't deal with them. On the news earlier it was stated that they have lots of people identified as dangerous fundamentalists etc etc.....perhaps they should round them up,put them on a boat and drop them off in a country that practices their ideals and leave them to it...

Why bother?.......just sink It!
Oh I forgot It would infringe on their basic human rights.......shame.

 

[Jaffa91]

Terrible news, But i'm sad to say i'm not surprised, it was just a matter of time and a majority of people have their head in the clouds.

Condolences to the families.

 

[geetee]

The thing is they won't deal with them. On the news earlier it was stated that they have lots of people identified as dangerous fundamentalists etc etc.....perhaps they should round them up,put them on a boat and drop them off in a country that practices their ideals and leave them to it...

I think they may have identified potential fundamentalists not active ones.

A bit like George Orwell's thought police ( or Tom Crusie's Minority report) , we should just decide that we don't like what some people are thinking and not just keep an eye on them but actively lock them up and then sink the boat! Don't wait for them to act prerform a pre emptive strike maybe and damn the consequences?
So when we have dealt with all of the Islamists we can then round on another section of society who do not think properly , be it communism, hippies,homosexuality, Americans and so on. It's a slippery slope to lock people up for thinking AND you would need a big boat or warehouse for all the thought criminals

We can only deal with those we catch or those whose plans we discover, anything else brings us down to the level of the terrorist. You will end up demanding proof that you are NOT a witch or ISIS or moslem by quoting the National anthem maybe. I don't want to live in that place, it sounds like a slightly more civilised caliphate but just as wrong!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The worry is it has happened before and it will happen again he was known to the authorities and i imagine there are a lot more who are also known it didn't stop him and wont stop them, it has been said many times you cannot beat terrorists they do not wear a uniform and don't carry a big sign round with them saying "i am a terrorist" for me Elvisisbeer summed it up perfectly -

There's no way of beating this, other than by living our lives as best we can.

 

[geetee]

The worry is it has happened before and it will happen again he was known to the authorities and i imagine there are a lot more who are also known it didn't stop him and wont stop them, it has been said many times you cannot beat terrorists they do not wear a uniform and don't carry a big sign round with them saying "i am a terrorist" for me Elvisisbeer summed it up perfectly -

And THAT is the "beauty" of terrorism, the cards are all in the terrorist's hand, leave the other side guessing and even by not attacking or claiming responsibility the uncertainty still causes chaos and uncertainty. What it also causes is the calls for "something to be done " and someone to blame which merely generates new recruits by stigmatising an entire race or religion instead of the actual terrorists.

You can beat them by maintaining the culture,beliefs and systems that they despise, by uniting with other like minded countries, playing the long game and not sinking to their level.

PS He was known to the police as a petty criminal and NOT actively monitored as a known sympathiser or fundmentalist. We cannot track everyone with a criminal record as a potential lone wolf.

 

[Clint]

News says he was a nutter. As for the thought police etc if the gays,commis or hippies or anyone else suddenly decide mass murder of innocent people is on their agenda then they should all be burnt at the stake...and all their supporters.

 

[Linalmeemow]

perhaps they should round them up,put them on a boat and drop them off in a country that practices their ideals and leave them to it...

Well done, you're playing right into their hands. Killing people isn't their target, sparking off a religious war is. By dividing Britain into "us" and "them" that's exactly what you'll do, especially when the huge majority of "them" are perfectly decent, peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives like you or I.

 

[Dutto]

........ born in Britain and by right of Birth qualifies as a British citizen ..........
...........

I was trying to point out that by all the things taught at my Primary School ("tolerance of others" and "fair play to all" being two basic fundamentals) he was not "acting" as a British Citizen was taught to act.

Basically, these people mistake "tolerance" for "weakness" and as with many of life's lessons they discover too late that experience is a cruel teacher!

With regard to the "conspiracy theorists" I agree entirely. They have obviously not considered the "Ockham's Razor" principle which states:

"If there exists two explanations for an occurrence,
the simpler one is usually better."
or another way of saying it is,
"The more assumptions you have to make,
the more unlikely is an explanation."​

... and boy do the conspiracy theorists have to make a lot of assumptions to get to their alternative explanation.

 

[Oneflewover]

I think they may have identified potential fundamentalists not active ones.

A bit like George Orwell's thought police ( or Tom Crusie's Minority report) , we should just decide that we don't like what some people are thinking and not just keep an eye on them but actively lock them up and then sink the boat! Don't wait for them to act prerform a pre emptive strike maybe and damn the consequences?
So when we have dealt with all of the Islamists we can then round on another section of society who do not think properly , be it communism, hippies,homosexuality, Americans and so on. It's a slippery slope to lock people up for thinking AND you would need a big boat or warehouse for all the thought criminals

We can only deal with those we catch or those whose plans we discover, anything else brings us down to the level of the terrorist. You will end up demanding proof that you are NOT a witch or ISIS or moslem by quoting the National anthem maybe. I don't want to live in that place, it sounds like a slightly more civilised caliphate but just as wrong!

Spot on, couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Clint]

I think,in my simplistic view of things, the religion bit is where it all falls down. Is there any mention or instruction of what's been happening in the religious guide lines they follow? Other things are driving this to hidden agenda.
It is now beer o'clock in the house of Clint and my jalfrezi needs attention..

Clint

 

[geetee]

News says he was a nutter. As for the thought police etc if the gays,commis or hippies or anyone else suddenly decide mass murder of innocent people is on their agenda then they should all be burnt at the stake...and all their supporters.

Most people would entirely agree with that , no argument. My point is that it is not a crime to be in one of these groups just the same as it is not a crime to be a moslem or follow the Islamic religion UNLESS they commit a crime. Until that point they are innocent and just have different belief systems to other people.

The classic misinterpretation comes where terrorists have convinced people that THEY are Islamist when in fact they are mere terrorists hijacking the religion, making up their own rules and punishments and torture supposedly in the name of Allah.
True Islamic followers then have to convince people that these ideas are NOT part of moslem faith, that is a tough ask when they see "so called" moslem atrocities in the media. The damage is done once people start asking for ALL moslems to be rounded up because the terrorists have spread the doubt that it is the West against Islam when in fact the West against ISIS is the true fight!

 

[BeerisGOD]

We debate and look for answers. These barbaric mutants just seek to kill and destroy our way of life. Seems a waste of resources to keep playing hot political potato to me.
It's an act of treason. Send them to the guillotine with they're last meal choice being made for them. A flap of bacon in a bap

 

[Clint]

That is what it's all about....well put/explained..(gee tee )

Cheers

Clint

 

[shepp]

Most people would entirely agree with that , no argument. My point is that it is not a crime to be in one of these groups just the same as it is not a crime to be a moslem or follow the Islamic religion UNLESS they commit a crime. Until that point they are innocent and just have different belief systems to other people.

The classic misinterpretation comes where terrorists have convinced people that THEY are Islamist when in fact they are mere terrorists hijacking the religion, making up their own rules and punishments and torture supposedly in the name of Allah.
True Islamic followers then have to convince people that these ideas are NOT part of moslem faith, that is a tough ask when they see "so called" moslem atrocities in the media. The damage is done once people start asking for ALL moslems to be rounded up because the terrorists have spread the doubt that it is the West against Islam when in fact the West against ISIS is the true fight!

Many people would argue that ISIS are following their religion and doing much the same as 'the most perfect man' was doing during his later life.

Let's face it, Islam is a collection of bad ideas, and even mainstream Muslim attitudes often don't really work in modern western society. What's worse is they are actually going in reverse and getting further away from reforming.

Which other religion puts peoples lives in danger if they openly critise it?
Which other religion has the death sentence for leaving it, in many Muslim countries?

 

[Godsdog]

Up until yesterday attacks on uk mainland have been very limited and i think that thanks must go to our security services for that.what isis would like is an all out bang bang scenario.we must and should rely on our security services to prempt such attacks,yes there will be isolated incidents but not i think on the scale of the recent historic french incidents and i say to everyone to be vigilantic as its an incident that can and will happen again soon and probably in the west midlands area.all down to mr blair and mr bush and succsessive politicians poking their noses into world affairs where people you cant democrascise should be left to sort their own countrys problems out ,there are no easy fixes to todays modern days plague.it took us a thousand years or more to get to a level point of civilisation but the middle east is still at that starting point and coming on stronger than ever.keep vigilant people as we are in dangerous times

 

[Dutto]

Many people (including some allegedly practising Muslims) mistakenly believe that Islam does not tolerate the existence of other religions present in the world. However, the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, described in the verse of the Quran ...

“To you be your religion, to me be mine.”​

... and strictly warned against any maltreatment of people of other faiths.

He said:

“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights,
or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will;
I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.”
​

The Prophet also said:

“Whoever kills a person who has a truce with the Muslims
will never smell the fragrance of Paradise.”​

So, The Prophet (who wrote down the instructions of God in the Quran to create the religion of Islam) condemns in his teachings the actions of these people; and anyone who seeks paradise through acts of violence against other religions will actually be condemning himself to purgatory for all eternity.

The vast majority of Muslims follow the teachings of The Prophet and have no desire or inclination to attack people who follow other religions.

Please take the trouble to read the attached article. You may be pleasantly surprised and it may give you a different view of the Muslims who live amongst us.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/religious-tolerance-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi

However, an alternative view is espoused here ...

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/myths/tolerance.aspx

As a practising Christian who hangs his head in shame at the antics of my predecessors I can only quote Mathew Chapter 7 of the Bible ...

"And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not
consider the plank in your own eye?

Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from
your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?

Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will
see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."​

It's true then, what my Dad told me ...

"All t'worlds queer except me and thee; and I worry about thee lad!"​