LME & Saaz Recipe

[Cotters14]

Hi All,

Ok so I am going to crack on with the lager next week as I am off and have a ITC-308 arriving on Friday and I picked up a used fridge for 99p off of eBay and so I can keep the temperatures where they need to be.

So, my question is, as I am going to be waiting ~8 weeks to drink this and given the ingredients I have above, I am thinking I should probably make more effort in to getting the right ingredients and so does anyone have any good recipe ideas given the yeast I am using? I am open to ordering different ingredients to make the right beer as I want to enjoy it and also ensure the visitors like it too.

If I use simply what I've got, what type of beer am I going to get? I think when I ordered the ingredients with the LHBS, I was reading an old Grolsch recipe - does that sort of style sound right? I'll likely aim for the 15L as I'd rather it nearer 5% than 4%.

TIA

 

[Cotters14]

Good afternoon, I now also have some Hersbrucker hops (100g / 2% AA) and also some flaked grain (250g).

Thinking I will save the Hersbrucker for another brew (unless someone thinks it would be a nice combo) as it appears very similar in profile to Saaz but I did want to ask opinions on whether adding 125g of the flaked maize help much?

I'm pressing on with using just the DME Light despite a YouTube video telling me using DME would make a really sweet horrible beer but after looking around this forum and others, I don't seem to get that opinion?

Does anyone else have any input on that?

Brew day tomorrow, just finishing the fermentation chamber and the plan is as follows (thanks to MyQul and darrellm for their input on recipe)

==============================
Batch Size - 16l

Dissolve 1kg of DME

Hop Boil:
Saaz 35g@60min
Saaz 15g@10min
Saaz15g@1min

Add the 2nd 1kg at the end and dissolve.

Chill and then pitch with Saflager S-23
==============================

I'll post some pictures of both tomorrow :)

 

[Cotters14]

WHAT A NIGHTMARE BREW!

So having started around 17:30 getting the brew equipment out and giving it a little clean before starting, I didn't actually start to dissolve my 1st kg of DME (Light) until 19:26.

The electric hob I am using is not capable of boiling the 3 gallons I had in the pan and so with the temperature at 198f and with the time being 23:36 (4 hours since adding the DME!!) I lost patience and added my first hop edition, 35g of Saaz (3.0% AA).

This was followed by a 2nd hop additon (15g Saaz as above) @ 00:06 (30 mins) with a temperature now down at 170f and then a final 15g addition of Saaz at 00:26 with 10 minutes remaining and a temperature 179.8f.

I should add I added the 2nd 1kg of DME @ 00:20 so assume that is maybe why the temperature dropped when I took a reading for the 2nd hop addition.

Anyway, after the hour, I started to chill the wort and then racked it over to the fermenter which had one gallon of pre-boiled water from another 1 gallon stock pot that we have in the house.

Now here is where I have made some further mistakes to go with those above!

Having chilled to 68f I racked in to the fermenter and added to the pre-boiled water already in there. At this point I realised I hadn't took an OG reading and so I sterilised the auto siphon I had racked with and as I went to dip in to the wort a little sanitiser ended up in there! I took a sample and then went to add the yeast and then at that point I realised that I only had about 10l of wort in the fermenter and so I added 4-5 litres of cold water to the fermenter (too tired to boil more up) and then pitched the yeast. I pitched 2 sachets of Saflager S-23.

So, now I am thinking I may have pitched the yeast too low having used cold tap water!!??

Already pretty pi**ed with my self at this point as to whether the yeast had been pitched too cold and also the issue with the steriliser ending up in the wort I went to the garage to add the fermenter to fermentaiton fridge and it didn't fit as the airlock was too tall . I didn't think to measure as I had the same make and model fridge as I saw someone use on YouTube for their fermentation fridge. I'll of course check back and see what size fermenter he was using later today.

The time by this point was ~02:30 am and so I just took the airlock out and closed the fridge door and went to bed

This morning I have got up and sanitised a 1l bottle, the tubing from the auto-siphon and then added that through the hole in the fermenter lid and added the other end to the 1l bottle which is about half full of sanitised water.

So my questions are as follows:

1) Will the contact with the sanitiser in the wort be a major issue? IE poisonous??
2) Do you foresee any issue with the yeast being pitched too low. The fermentation fridge is set to 12c. Should I ramp this a little. The probe is only in the fridge, I am about to tape it to the fermenter though.

If you need any more information then let me know.

BTW the OG was 1.060 assume this is because the volume in the fermenter was so low?

Ideally I want to see how it turns out but that said, if its 8 weeks to have a failure then I would rather cut losses at this stage and start a new batch as I only have one fridge and chalk this mishap up to experience and learn from it and be better prepared for the next brew with step by step instructions for myself so I know what order to do things and so I don't miss anything out, like OG readings etc.

Before I do any more brewing, I will need a gas burner as using the kitchen hob is not sufficient and took all the enjoyment out of the brew day!

TIA for the replies and advice.

Cotters :hat:

 

[Oneflewover]

Oh dear, that really does sound like a mare!

What was the sanitiser that you were using?

If you like lagers particularly have you considered using a yeast that will give a clean flavour at slightly higher temps?

 

[Cotters14]

Oh dear, that really does sound like a mare!

What was the sanitiser that you were using?

If you like lagers particularly have you considered using a yeast that will give a clean flavour at slightly higher temps?

Thanks for the reply, I was using Brewsafe as per the image below and following link:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=232527037410

In terms of the temperature, I can probably adjust the bottom of the fridge to allow for the airlock to be added on future brews, so hopefully temperature isn't an issue once I can fit the thing in, that is.

 

[Cotters14]

Here is the fridge and some other pics.

 

[terrym]

Its a bit late now as far as this brew is concerned, but for extract brews there is no need to boil all of the wort. So in your case you could have boiled say 6 to 8 litres only of the wort with the hops and topped up the FV to your 16 litres with cold water just like a kit.
More here if you are interested
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/a-simple-guide-to-extract-brewing.75501/

 

[Oneflewover]

Thanks for the reply, I was using Brewsafe as per the image below and following link:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=232527037410

In terms of the temperature, I can probably adjust the bottom of the fridge to allow for the airlock to be added on future brews, so hopefully temperature isn't an issue once I can fit the thing in, that is.

Looks like it is essentially sodium percarbonate - also the active ingredient in laundry oxi-cleaners. I do use this, but as a cleaner not a sanitiser. Sorry, I appreciate thatst probably not too helpful.

In terms of whether it will be toxic - I guess it depends upon how much you used. A quick Google search will tell you that it can be toxic in high concentrations, so down to you.

The reason I mentioned using an ale or ale / lager hybrid yeast is that it's perhaps more forgiving. Best wishes

 

[Cotters14]

Its a bit late now as far as this brew is concerned, but for extract brews there is no need to boil all of the wort. So in your case you could have boiled say 6 to 8 litres only of the wort with the hops and topped up the FV to your 16 litres with cold water just like a kit.
More here if you are interested
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/a-simple-guide-to-extract-brewing.75501/

Thanks terrym, I did read this when you posted it and thought I'd achieve the boil with 3 gallon adding in the rest from the smaller pot for the total.

As I'd got so long in, could I have still split the pot down even though I'd begun?

For example, took the 3 gallon pot and transferred say 1 gallon of the dissolved DME to the smaller pot and done the hop boil there? Then just poured that in to the fermenter once cooled with the original 2 gallon of DME that had dissolved earlier and then topped it all up before pitching the yeast?

If so, that makes it much better as the 1 gallon pot boils really well as its a much thicker pot and so retains the heat much better?

Any thoughts on current brew with the sanitizer issue?

Thanks

 

[Cotters14]

Looks like it is essentially sodium percarbonate - also the active ingredient in laundry oxi-cleaners. I do use this, but as a cleaner not a sanitiser. Sorry, I appreciate thatst probably not too helpful.

In terms of whether it will be toxic - I guess it depends upon how much you used. A quick Google search will tell you that it can be toxic in high concentrations, so down to you.

The reason I mentioned using an ale or ale / lager hybrid yeast is that it's perhaps more forgiving. Best wishes

Thanks Oneflewover, I appreciate the input

 

[BeerCat]

For anyone starting brewing lagers try out mangrove jacks mj54 cali lager yeast. It ferments warm and clears very fast, does not need to be lagered for weeks on end. Use 2 packs as it can be a bit slow to get going.

 

[terrym]

As I'd got so long in, could I have still split the pot down even though I'd begun?
For example, took the 3 gallon pot and transferred say 1 gallon of the dissolved DME to the smaller pot and done the hop boil there? Then just poured that in to the fermenter once cooled with the original 2 gallon of DME that had dissolved earlier and then topped it all up before pitching the yeast?
If so, that makes it much better as the 1 gallon pot boils really well as its a much thicker pot and so retains the heat much better?

To quote the old saying ....."There's more than one way to skin a cat".
Your alternative might have worked.
I would have probably dissolved 1kg of the DME either in the FV or in one of the pots before adding it to the FV.
I would then have used the other kg of DME to do the hop boil in the larger pot but only part filled it, say 8 litres so you have enough to get a rolling boil going, but you have not exceeded the capability of your hob.
Or you could have used the smaller pot as well with some of the DME to have the 10 min and 1 min hop additions, leaving the main 60min boil in the bigger pot as above.
I'm sure there are other options.

 

[Cotters14]

Ok, so I am going to ferment the beer out as it has a nice krausen forming on it and when I think back to the amount of potential Brew Safe in the chilled wort, it would be something like the following.

I diluted 20mg of Brew Safe in ~4l of water which was used to re-sterilise the auto-siphon. Once I had run some steriliser through the auto-siphon I took the end out of the pan I was using and then popped it in the chilled wort to take the sample for the OG reading. I'd say it was almost certainly less than 50ml, as it was literally a few drops from memory and so as this would have then been diluted with the wort which was ~10l which again was then topped up to 15l with cold water.

Given that dilution I am going to see how it tastes in a few weeks when I move to secondary fermentation.

A question on the airlock, I have a Northern Brewer fermenter which the lid isnt air tight on and so does anyone have any experience of using these without an airlock?

At the minute I am using a 1l bottle, half filled with sanistiser with the tubing going between the hole in the fermenter lid and then the other end in the bottle.

Is there any risk of the sanitiser being sucked back in to the wort?

 

[terrym]

Brewsafe is essentially sodium percarbonate as far as I am aware. However I don't know if they are any other fillers in it. Sodium percarbonate is a chemical combination of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide. When dissolved in water the peroxide is released and that is the active component that cleans stuff. Whats left behind is sodium carbonate (alias washing soda) which has some toxicity in large amounts when ingested as it comes , but in very dilute form is not toxic. It is also probably tasteless in very dilute form.
You have taken 20g of Brewsafe (not 20mg I suspect) and diluted that in 4 litres of water. Assuming you did get 50ml of that into your beer, that is about 0.25g of the Brewsafe (about a pinch in cooking terms) , which is then further diluted with 25 litres of wort giving approx 10ppm Brewsafe. Personally I think you can forget all about it. If you used anything other than distilled or RO water to make up your brew you are likely to have more dissolved salts present in your beer than your pinch of Brewsafe.

 

[Cotters14]

Brewsafe is essentially sodium percarbonate as far as I am aware. However I don't know if they are any other fillers in it. Sodium percarbonate is a chemical combination of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide. When dissolved in water the peroxide is released and that is the active component that cleans stuff. Whats left behind is sodium carbonate (alias washing soda) which has some toxicity in large amounts when ingested as it comes , but in very dilute form is not toxic. It is also probably tasteless in very dilute form.
You have taken 20g of Brewsafe (not 20mg I suspect) and diluted that in 4 litres of water. Assuming you did get 50ml of that into your beer, that is about 0.25g of the Brewsafe (about a pinch in cooking terms) , which is then further diluted with 25 litres of wort giving approx 10ppm Brewsafe. Personally I think you can forget all about it. If you used anything other than distilled or RO water to make up your brew you are likely to have more dissolved salts present in your beer than your pinch of Brewsafe.

Thanks terrym, that is how I was looking at it too. Time will tell :)

 

[Cotters14]

5 weeks later and here it is......

Lovely clean beer and tastes not too bad either IMO. Head retention was OK and carbonated pretty well considering it was bottled 13 days ago.

Poker night tomorrow and so hence why I wanted to try it before taking a few samples with me tomorrow.

 

[Cotters14]

Should have mentioned I fermented with the Brulosophy quick lager method. For the cold crash I just put some loose foil over the lid of the fermentation vessel.

 

[terrym]

5 weeks later and here it is......

Lovely clean beer and tastes not too bad either IMO. Head retention was OK and carbonated pretty well considering it was bottled 13 days ago.

Poker night tomorrow and so hence why I wanted to try it before taking a few samples with me tomorrow.

Enjoy

 

[Cotters14]

So, I haven't brewed since this attempt, long story short I changed employment and that coupled with the poor electric hob in the kitchen I just never got back to it.

Then a few weeks ago, I came across a few bottles of this that were still in the garage and when I opened they were still well carbonated and very clean and nice tasting despite being over 12 months old. They have been kept in the garage and so away from direct sunlight but not chilled.

Now with the lockdown it has peaked my interest in doing another brew although this time I am either go to ensure I get my rolling boil by investing in a brew kettle and outdoor gas burner or one of the electric mash kettles.

Just doing my research on which way I want to go and then I'm off to do another homebrew, once stores / websites are able to deliver again that is.

I'll of course post as and when and continue to learn as I do

*edit - I tried to post the video of the poured glass but it didn't like the extension*

 

[MyQul]

So, I haven't brewed since this attempt, long story short I changed employment and that coupled with the poor electric hob in the kitchen I just never got back to it.

Then a few weeks ago, I came across a few bottles of this that were still in the garage and when I opened they were still well carbonated and very clean and nice tasting despite being over 12 months old. They have been kept in the garage and so away from direct sunlight but not chilled.

Now with the lockdown it has peaked my interest in doing another brew although this time I am either go to ensure I get my rolling boil by investing in a brew kettle and outdoor gas burner or one of the electric mash kettles.

Just doing my research on which way I want to go and then I'm off to do another homebrew, once stores / websites are able to deliver again that is.

*Edit - I tried to upload the video but it didn't like the extension*


I'll of course post as and when and continue to learn as I do

Another option is an induction hob and steep pot. Thats the way I would go if my hob couldnt take it