Leaky barrels

[DiBosco]

I like to occasionally barrel my beer and have a cask conditioned ale. I've got plastic 5 gallon barrels and 2 gallon ones. The other day I made a ten litre batch so we could have friends round, sit in the garden and have safe, non-gassy beer. However, for the second time (it happneed a couple of years ago with a five gallon barrel), I've found that my barrel leaked and I lost my beer. I'd previously had the same thing on a five gallon container.

I am not over-priming the beer and in fact with the latest one, it happened pretty quickly so I don't believe I am over pressurising. This latest time, I thought at first it was leaking from the tap, as I was able to tighten it up a little. However, this was after noticing I'd lost just a litre or two on the floor and even tightening it up, it continued to leak. Having had water in it for a week or so I'm no losing nothing though. I guess there must be a weakness in it an just a little pressure is enough to force liquid out, whereas just water with no pressure is OK.

So, it seems these plastic barrels are, not to put to fine a point on it, ****.

Does anyone have any alternatives? Something I can make small batches of real ale and that won't leak? From what I gather corny kegs are for gassy beer and I can do that in bottles no problem.

Thanks!

 

[Buffers brewery]

Out of interest (I’m a King Keg user and am yet to experience beer loss from my barrels) what was the make of your PB that leaked and how old was it? Sorry for your loss

 

[DiBosco]

I'm not sure what makes they are TBH. Maybe Wilko for one of them. Possibly the now defunct and much missed Home Brew Shop in Stockport and an on line company.

They're definitely not King Keg and have no make written on them, just generic white plastic barrels.

I'd not seen King Keg before, maybe one of theirs would be worth a try. [Edit] Looks like they don't do two gallon versions.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

You may require pressire for the water to leak. Have you considered Dark Farm kegs?
I use Cornies now following a PB leakage experience (before anyone tell me to use vaseline etc, it was the shell itself for which there's no fix).
Cornies don't have to be for gassy beer.

 

[DiBosco]

I'd never heard of Dark Farm before, but their kegs seem to all be pressured systems.

I'm not totlly clear yet how the corny can be used unpressurised, but then again, I've neve rdealt with a corny for anything. I'm watching videos to get a clearer picture of how they work. One bloke is saying reverse the gas and beer holes, so the beer will come out of the gas hole and he's saying you need a system for letting air in (of course), but I can't visualise that yet.

I have found 4.5 gallon proper casks which will be great for 23l batches when having friends round for a do.

Was the same with me, in that the barrel itself split, not the tap leaking.

 

[terrym]

Although King Kegs are probably more reliable than basic PBs (and so they should because they cost more) they still appear to require fettling and fiddling about to keep them leakproof, although some don't seem to mind that, whereas others find it frustrating when things go wrong at the most inconvenient time.
So in general terms you either like PBs or you don't, and that is reflected in the numbers who eventually give up on PBs of any sort.
I suggest you read this and the rest of the thread and perhaps form your own opinion on whether they still remain a good investment in spite of their advantages when operating as intended as you have noted.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...pressure-barrels-pbs.88283/page-5#post-929409

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I'd never heard of Dark Farm before, but their kegs seem to all be pressured systems.

I'm not totlly clear yet how the corny can be used unpressurised, but then again, I've neve rdealt with a corny for anything. I'm watching videos to get a clearer picture of how they work. One bloke is saying reverse the gas and beer holes, so the beer will come out of the gas hole and he's saying you need a system for letting air in (of course), but I can't visualise that yet.

I have found 4.5 gallon proper casks which will be great for 23l batches when having friends round for a do.

Was the same with me, in that the barrel itself split, not the tap leaking.

I think I am not quite understanding what your after. The barrels you already have - do they not serve under pressure? If not, how do you stop the beer spoiling? I assumed you were talking about pressure barrels. If so, they are either primed to produce CO2 or used cartridges(or similar) in order to dispense without oxygen getting in.
Cornies require a CO2 supply, but the CO2 pressure doesn't have to be set high.
If you are set on something unpressurised, I'd have thought you'd either need one of those bag in a box things or would have to consume the entire batch within 3 days.

 

[DiBosco]

I think I am not quite understanding what your after. The barrels you already have - do they not serve under pressure? If not, how do you stop the beer spoiling? I assumed you were talking about pressure barrels. If so, they are either primed to produce CO2 or used cartridges(or similar) in order to dispense without oxygen getting in.
Cornies require a CO2 supply, but the CO2 pressure doesn't have to be set high.
If you are set on something unpressurised, I'd have thought you'd either need one of those bag in a box things or would have to consume the entire batch within 3 days.

I'm after a a reliable small barrel so I can make cask conditioned beer (or as near as damnit) to serve using my beer pump. The beer won't spoil as it'll all be drunk over the course of a weekend.

I have done this very successfully a number of times with the plastic barrels. I had a five gallon one that split on me, losing liquid last year and thought I was just unlucky. However, a two gallon one split on me a couple of weeks ago, leading me to believe there is an inherent flaw with thee barrels. What would be great is something like a corny keg as they are made of steel and so, presumably, much more robust.

I am not sure I've said much more here than my original point, so maybe I'm not explaining this very well. :/

These plastic barrels would be fine if they didn't split. And I would stress I have never pressurised them with carbon dioxide, purely what is produced from secondary fermentation with minimal priming sugars.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

The reason I am confused is it appears that your barrels don't leak unless there is pressure in them, yet you want an unpressurised system to replace them.
Anyhow, this mat be what you're after:

 

[Gerryjo]

I'm after a a reliable small barrel so I can make cask conditioned beer (or as near as damnit) to serve using my beer pump. The beer won't spoil as it'll all be drunk over the course of a weekend.

I have done this very successfully a number of times with the plastic barrels. I had a five gallon one that split on me, losing liquid last year and thought I was just unlucky. However, a two gallon one split on me a couple of weeks ago, leading me to believe there is an inherent flaw with thee barrels. What would be great is something like a corny keg as they are made of steel and so, presumably, much more robust.

I am not sure I've said much more here than my original point, so maybe I'm not explaining this very well. :/

These plastic barrels would be fine if they didn't split. And I would stress I have never pressurised them with carbon dioxide, purely what is produced from secondary fermentation with minimal priming sugars.

Just to clarify secondary fermentation with additional sugars produces co2 hence the pressure in the barrel. Corny kegs will do exactly the same just having different dispensing set up.

 

[DiBosco]

They leak if there is beer inside them with minimal pressure. I'm not saying I want a barrel with no pressure. Cask conditioned beer clearly has some pressure, just nothing like a keg.

I've seen that video, it's not really what I want. I'm looking for a robust barrel not a bag. It can't be beyond the wit of man to come with such a thing! :)

 

[DiBosco]

Just to clarify secondary fermentation with additional sugars produces co2 hence the pressure in the barrel. Corny kegs will do exactly the same just having different dispensing set up.

Which is potentially interesting, I'm trying to understand exactly how you would do that hooked up to a beer pump!

Although having scoured the web last night, it seems that people report problems with Corny kegs too

 

[Gerryjo]

Which is potentially interesting, I'm trying to understand exactly how you would do that hooked up to a beer pump!

Although having scoured the web last night, it seems that people report problems with Corny kegs too

The corny keg is designed for durability and higher pressure but will still operate on a lower pressure set up similar to your barrel setup using your minimal pressure to dispense with your hand pump.

 

[Doive]

I think you could probably use a corny keg to serve a cask conditioned ale, using a beer engine to extract, and a CO2 source to purge the oxygen & maintain a slight positive pressure for dispensing. The beer engine would actually suck the beer from the corny, with the CO2 source maintaining keg pressure, as opposed to the CO2 normally pushing the beer out. I haven't done this, but I could see how it might work.

 

[AMyd666]

What about this?

 

[AnimatedGIF]

They leak if there is beer inside them with minimal pressure. I'm not saying I want a barrel with no pressure. Cask conditioned beer clearly has some pressure, just nothing like a keg.

I've seen that video, it's not really what I want. I'm looking for a robust barrel not a bag. It can't be beyond the wit of man to come with such a thing! :)

If you want something like a cask, why not get... a cask?

 

[AnimatedGIF]

Also, why does it have to be so robust?

 

[DiBosco]

I am seriously thinking about getting a pin cask (ie the 4.5 gallon size, especially if I can get a plastic one, which are quite reasonably priced). It would be great to have a 2 gallon one though for when I've just got a couple of people round.

They want to be robust so they don't leak!

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I am seriously thinking about getting a pin cask (ie the 4.5 gallon size, especially if I can get a plastic one, which are quite reasonably priced). It would be great to have a 2 gallon one though for when I've just got a couple of people round.

They want to be robust so they don't leak!

For some reason when you said robust I read "rigid". I've not heard of anyone having the bag in boxes leak, but I also don't know how widely they are used(I suspect hardly at all).

 

[AnimatedGIF]

Just realised the bags are called polypins. Many a brewery sells their beer in these, so it must be up to the job. Perhaps not reusable though.