Leadership Debate

[foxy]

If you have access to education and capital.

In the Republic of Ireland there is still a huge barrier to students from a working class background accessing 3rd level education.
Their cultural background, geographical location, class barriers & expectations from their peer group are only some factors affecting students from a deprived background.
I work with kids from deprived backgrounds. They have plenty of drive but face a number of obstacles kids living in a different area could not comprehend.
This can range from lack of confidence, poverty, illness, low expectations or lack of parental support.

I am sure children in the UK, living in deprived areas, face similar challenges.

The unfortunate fact is drive and commtment, in these circumstances are rarely enough.

The lucky few who manage to break this glass ceiling are purely that, lucky.

It isn't just luck, anyone can start a business from scratch, when I say anyone, it is the ones who are motivated to do better for them selves. Fortunately education doesn't come into it.
Looking at some of the entrepreneurs you have in the UK a lot started with nothing.

 

[RichardM]

No it isn’t: especially in the UK!

As a “for instance”, many people mistake “education” for “intelligence”.

This is why almost all very well-off people in the UK pay a lot of money to send their children to fee-paying schools! Many of these children are so well educated that they move on to a University despite being as thick as planks!

The really dense ones (i.e. those too stupid to be educated to University level) rely on “Parental” or “Old School Tie” contacts to find employment.

Prince Big Ears and his siblings being prime examples.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

If you have access to education and capital.

In the Republic of Ireland there is still a huge barrier to students from a working class background accessing 3rd level education.
Their cultural background, geographical location, class barriers & expectations from their peer group are only some factors affecting students from a deprived background.
I work with kids from deprived backgrounds. They have plenty of drive but face a number of obstacles kids living in a different area could not comprehend.
This can range from lack of confidence, poverty, illness, low expectations or lack of parental support.

I am sure children in the UK, living in deprived areas, face similar challenges.

The unfortunate fact is drive and commtment, in these circumstances are rarely enough.

The lucky few who manage to break this glass ceiling are purely that, lucky.

Spot on

 

[Dutto]

It isn't just luck, anyone can start a business from scratch, when I say anyone, it is the ones who are motivated to do better for them selves. Fortunately education doesn't come into it.
Looking at some of the entrepreneurs you have in the UK a lot started with nothing.

If you start with nothing you have nothing to lose! So?

Someone quoted Richard Branson as a case in point so I suggest you have a read of:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson
Supported by his parents all the way apparently!
:hat:

 

[Dutto]

… buckled down to it, they could realise their potential .

What a statement!

Try the following:

• Male leaves school aged 15
• Gets a fair job with prospects
• Gets promoted and pay increase
• Marries girlfriend
• Has first child
• Gets better job
• Has second child
• Takes out a Mortgage
• Gets a better job
• Children now at school age
• Gets a better house

Assume that the list occupies about 10 years (leaving school to 25 let’s say) please explain exactly when you advocate the person “buckles down to it”; and upsets their wife, children, family, employer, Building Society, Bank Manager etc by throwing everything up to become a putative “entrepreneur”?

Good luck with the answer!
:hat:

 

[Cheshire Cat]

All common people need to buckle down and know their place in society. That’s the way it works.

 

[Dutto]

All common people need to buckle down and know their place in society. That’s the way it works.

Er …. does anyone remember which Prime Minister said there was no such thing as “society”!

I think he or she must have been very popular to voice such an opinion.
:hat:

 

[RichardM]

Er …. does anyone remember which Prime Minister said there was no such thing as “society”!

I think he or she must have been very popular to voice such an opinion.
:hat:

She won a few elections but I know very few people who admit to liking her or voting for her

 

[starseeker]

What a statement!

Try the following:

• Male leaves school aged 15
• Gets a fair job with prospects
• Gets promoted and pay increase
• Marries girlfriend
• Has first child
• Gets better job
• Has second child
• Takes out a Mortgage
• Gets a better job
• Children now at school age
• Gets a better house

Assume that the list occupies about 10 years (leaving school to 25 let’s say) please explain exactly when you advocate the person “buckles down to it”; and upsets their wife, children, family, employer, Building Society, Bank Manager etc by throwing everything up to become a putative “entrepreneur”?

Good luck with the answer!
:hat:

Well i did ,self employed at 18 , set my business up at 30 ,(builder ) now had a successful business for 26 years ,it takes balls ,some are happy to wait for the carriage clock ,some are not ,takes all sorts .

 

[Dutto]

Well i did ,self employed at 18 , set my business up at 30 ,(builder ) now had a successful business for 26 years ,it takes balls ,some are happy to wait for the carriage clock ,some are not ,takes all sorts .

So, who did you upset when you pursued your dream?

Starting out 26 years ago, at the end of the early 90’s recession, took some luck; or maybe you found yourself one of the 10.7% of people out of work and had nothing to lose?

Either way, it didn’t just take “balls” to succeed!
:hat:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[foxy]

If you start with nothing you have nothing to lose! So?

Someone quoted Richard Branson as a case in point so I suggest you have a read of:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson
Supported by his parents all the way apparently!
:hat:

I will see your Richard Branson and raise you Duncan Bannatyne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Bannatyne

What is the message of the poem thinking?
The main theme is that negativity and adversities are heavily influenced by our own state of mind.

 

[Brianbrewed]

I will see your Richard Branson and raise you Duncan Bannatyne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Bannatyne
View attachment 72102

What is the message of the poem thinking?
The main theme is that negativity and adversities are heavily influenced by our own state of mind.

Grand, I'll hand this out to the next homeless person I meet.

 

[foxy]

Grand, I'll hand this out to the next homeless person I meet.

Doesn't work like that, you can't make someone succeed if they haven't got the will, which most haven't.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Doesn't work like that, you can't make someone succeed if they haven't got the will, which most haven't.

Grand, just you, Duncan & Donald Trump.

 

[foxy]

Grand, just you, Duncan & Donald Trump.

Perfect example of a negative thinker going on your posts.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Perfect example of a negative thinker going on your posts.

That's me, Mr. 'accentuate the negative.'

 

[Brianbrewed]

Looking at some of the entrepreneurs you have in the UK a lot started with nothing.

Republic of Ireland has been independent from the UK for 100 years.

 

[Dutto]

I will see your Richard Branson and raise you Duncan Bannatyne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_BannatyneWhat is the message of the poem thinking?
The main theme is that negativity and adversities are heavily influenced by our own state of mind.

The tactic of “If you can’t win an argument then quote an obscure poet!” is well known; so I will respond by quoting one that you probably know, from a better known poet - G.K.Chesterton:

When fishes flew and forests walked
And figs grew upon thorn,
Some moment when the moon was blood
Then surely I was born.

With monstrous head and sickening cry
And ears like errant wings,
The devil’s walking parody
On all four-footed things.

The tattered outlaw of the earth,
Of ancient crooked will;
Starve, scourge, deride me: I am dumb,
I keep my secret still.

Fools! For I also had my hour;
One far fierce hour and sweet:
There was a shout about my ears,
And palms before my feet.​

:hat:

Ref:
https://allpoetry.com

 

[Dutto]

I will see your Richard Branson and raise you Duncan Bannatyne​

BTW, I quote from the link you gave me to show that Mr Bannatyne fell into my “nothing to lose” category!

“With Jersey's difficult business climate for outsiders, at age 29, Bannatyne and his wife moved to Stockton-on-Tees. He has stated that he was poor and did not have a bank account until the age of 30.”

:hat:​

 

[ChrisR73]

Perfect example of a negative thinker going on your posts.

I wouldn’t describe that as negative thinking at all.
Some people just don’t have the skill set to start their own business, and it can take many years to develop your skills to be able to set up on your own.
I had to work for some large companies for a good ten years before I could go self-employed, purely because I need to prove I have the experience and track record for results required to add more value to their organisations than the average person in my field.