Lager not conditioning

[jtreach]

Hey all, I wondering if somebody could give me a little advice? My lager is not bottle conditioning and tastes a little sweet and is not that carbonated.

I've brewed a Bock and moved to bottle conditioning after two weeks in primary fermentation. I batch spiked with sugar, bottled and brought the temperature to 3oC. I've left it now a little over two weeks and I just cracked a very small bottle to see how it was going. The answer is not that well as outlined above it's tasting a little sweet and is not that carbonated. This obviously implies that the yeast has not been that active so what should I do?

I have raised the temperature to 12oc but is this too much? What else could I do?

Notes below:

Ingredients (11L):

Munich 1.315kg
Pilsner 0.658kg
Marris Otter 0.658kg
Carapils 0.263kg
CaraMunch 0.167kg
Roasted Barley 0.033kg


12g Northern Brewer (start of boil, 7.8%)
5g Tettnanger (30mins from end, 4.5%)
75mins boil

Saflager s-23 yeast (1 pk)


Method:

Boil in the bag method.

11/11/18: OG = 1065 (target 1062). Pitched at ~23oC (according to fridge probe). Forgot Irish Moss! Placed in fridge and set to 12c.
19/11/18: SG = 1014
24/11/18: SG = 1016 (misreading?) tastes cleaner than on the 19th. Left out overnight at room temperature before carbonation.
25/11/18: Bottled by adding sugar to whole batch using ~100mL boiled water and 65g cane sugar. Poured sugary water onto beer that had been taken off yeast. Placed in fridge using makeshift shelf and set to 3oC.

Any help appreciated!

 

[braziliain]

I think 2 weeks at 12C or less (it reads like maybe most of that time was at 3C?) is possibly not long enough. Yeast activity is much slower at low temperatures.

You could raise the temp further, say up to 16C or simply wait longer.

I typically leave ales for 2 weeks at 20C to carbonate.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
I usually bottle condition at the same temperature as the initial fermentation, even a few degrees warmer.

 

[jtreach]

Hi!
I usually bottle condition at the same temperature as the initial fermentation, even a few degrees warmer.

Yeah I just chose 3oC as this was what my book recommended. Im suprised you both say you bottle condition at higher temperature, does this not affect the flavour (I thought this cold conditioning was an important part of making lager)? I realise 2 weeks is not enough time for the yeast to eat up the sugar though.

 

[braziliain]

Yeah I just chose 3oC as this was what my book recommended. Im suprised you both say you bottle condition at higher temperature, does this not affect the flavour (I thought this cold conditioning was an important part of making lager)? I realise 2 weeks is not enough time for the yeast to eat up the sugar though.

Carbonating at 12-18C won't affect the flavour. Typically the temp profile will be something like

2 weeks fermenting at 12C
Raise to 16C for a diacetyl rest for a few days
Bottle and carbonate at 16C
Then cold condition at 3C for a month

If you carbonate at 3C it will still work, but the yeast operate so slowly it may take two months to carbonate.

 

[jtreach]

Carbonating at 12-18C won't affect the flavour. Typically the temp profile will be something like

2 weeks fermenting at 12C
Raise to 16C for a diacetyl rest for a few days
Bottle and carbonate at 16C
Then cold condition at 3C for a month

Hmmm okay, do you think I've buggered it or do you think the yeast'll wake up with a bit of warmth and finish the job?

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
You would usually cold condition the lager before you bottle it.
I recently bottled a kölsch that had been chilled for 4 weeks after a two-week fermentation.
Raise the temperature - the yeast will only be dormant.

 

[braziliain]

Hi!
You would usually cold condition the lager before you bottle it.
I recently bottled a kölsch that had been chilled for 4 weeks after a two-week fermentation.

It works both ways round Col. I keg lagers now and force carbonate before cold storage. Prior to that I carbonated in bottles after the diacetyl rest, then cold conditioned with success.
Horses for courses.

If you warm it up now it will carbonate quicker and will be absolutely fine. If you have lots of patience, just leave it to condition for a long time. You haven't done anything described above that will ruin your lager. Don't worry :)

 

[jtreach]

It works both ways round Col. I keg lagers now and force carbonate before cold storage. Prior to that I carbonated after the diacetyl rest, then cold conditioned with success.
Horses for courses.

If you warm it up now it will carbonate quicker and will be absolutely fine. If you have lots of patience, just leave it to condition for a long time. You haven't done anything described above that will ruin your lager. Don't worry :)

Excellent. I'll warm it up to 14oC and leave it another two weeks and see how it goes, hopefully it'll be drinkable in time for Christmas. Thanks for all your help.

 

[braziliain]

Excellent. I'll warm it up to 14oC and leave it another two weeks and see how it goes, hopefully it'll be drinkable in time for Christmas. Thanks for all your help.

Once it's carbonated up, drop the temp back down for storage and come back and let us know how it turns out

 

[DavieC]

I used saflager s 23 yeast in my out of date youngs brew buddy lager kit ,ive still got bubbling in the airlock 5 weeks after starting! Og was 1040 and its just reached 1008.I fermented at 12-14c and after a month I moved the fv to a warmer room to 20c. Its only my second beer kit brew but I think the s23 is a super slow yeast. That said, the little taste Ive just had while testing the gravity is really good.

 

[skulltat280]

@jtreach how did it turn out? I'd probably prefer to brew lagers but I'll wait until I have a fermenting chamber or fridge

I'll brew ales and maybe try a stout or 2 in the mean time as it seems easier with the equipment I have now

 

[jtreach]

@jtreach how did it turn out? I'd probably prefer to brew lagers but I'll wait until I have a fermenting chamber or fridge

I'll brew ales and maybe try a stout or 2 in the mean time as it seems easier with the equipment I have now

Yeah not so well. I left it another week and a half and then cracked a bottle. Its carbonated up and is drier but I've got some nasty off taste. It's a fairly alcoholic spicy tobaccoey flavour, not that pleasant. I had this before with another dark ale I did. Prime suspect is the fact I've used the same bottles as last time (so infection of some sort) or my suspected low mash temperature (I didn't adjust or calculate exact strike temp).

Any ideas?

 

[skulltat280]

Yeah not so well. I left it another week and a half and then cracked a bottle. Its carbonated up and is drier but I've got some nasty off taste. It's a fairly alcoholic spicy tobaccoey flavour, not that pleasant. I had this before with another dark ale I did. Prime suspect is the fact I've used the same bottles as last time (so infection of some sort) or my suspected low mash temperature (I didn't adjust or calculate exact strike temp).

Any ideas?

Im afraid I can't be of any help mate. I've only ever brewed 1 kit beer before. I've yet to get my current equipment running

 

[Sandimas]

Have you made a lager before ? If not, don't give up - in my experience you need a much longer conditioning time that with ales, 10-12 weeks isn't unusual.

Given that you bottled it in late Nov, there's no way it was gonna be ready for Xmas. Give it time - the last time I brewed a lager with S23 it magically came good about 3 months in, vs ales that only take 4-6 weeks to come good.

 

[BeerCat]

Yeah not so well. I left it another week and a half and then cracked a bottle. Its carbonated up and is drier but I've got some nasty off taste. It's a fairly alcoholic spicy tobaccoey flavour, not that pleasant. I had this before with another dark ale I did. Prime suspect is the fact I've used the same bottles as last time (so infection of some sort) or my suspected low mash temperature (I didn't adjust or calculate exact strike temp).

Any ideas?

Sounds like you had a stressed fermentation. Did you taste it when you bottled? Has it gotten worse? It should taste decent when you bottle just flat. For a high gravity beer like yours you could do with more yeast. What temp did you pitch at and how long did fermentation take to start? Have a read of the brulosophy quick lager method