Lager-like ale

[terrym]

I've done a bit of reading around the Cooper's Canadian Blonde kit and how others have modified it slightly. I'm thinking of buying the kit but replacing the 1kg of brewing sugar and 500g of brew enhancer it recommends with 1kg of Extra Light DME. I also plan to replace the 7g of yeast with 11g of Nottingham yeast. Finally I plan to add 1 Coopers Carb drop per 500ml bottle for some fizz.
Provided that sounds all ok, it's just the temperature and length of time I'm stuck on. Recommendation here was 23 degrees, the kit recommends 21-27 but others have suggested 17-18 if you modify the instructions as I have above. All have varying brewing times too.
Regardless, my garage is currently 9 degrees (it's a bit drafty in there), my house about 20. So neither seem ideal. I feel I may need to mod a small fridge to provide me some kind of temperature control. It will be useful for when I do get a bit more experienced and try some lagering. Or, do you think I can get away without that to begin with when using the Canadian Blonde kit?

Your substitution of the sugars and enhancer with DME is fine. I found the Canadian Blonde kit a bit anaemic so adding malt instead of mostly sugar should address that to some degree.
Next there is no need to use carbonation drops, Ordinary table sugar is fine. Its much cheaper and you can more easily adjust the amount of priming sugar to suit your style of beer. If you are using 500ml bottles half to three quarters tsp sugar will be sufficient (more sugar in that range will give more carbonation).
And although its up to you, in my view there is no real need to change the kit yeast, only if you intend to ferment at less than say 18*C. Coopers kit yeasts are OK and usually give good results, certainly in my experience.
As far as temperature is concerned, in simple terms the lower the fermentation temperature the longer it usually takes, but the difference is usually measured in a few days, less so weeks. And fermenting at lower temperatures is said to produce a cleaner taste which suits lagers rather than fruity bitters.
My advice to you is to get the basic equipment you need to brew your first batch, get the necessary ingredients and get your beer going. With or without temperature control, provided the background is warm enough you will still brew beer. And having done that and learned a lot you can then turn your attention to the more detailed aspects of homebrewing, of which there are lots, just like opinions on this forum

 

[Greg B]

Sorry guys, another question....

I'm just building a kit list of what to buy. I've got the beer ingredients side of things sorted. Regarding equipment, I'm going for a 25 litre fermenting bucket but not sure if to use a normal lid and leave it loose, or get a lid with a grommet and add an airlock. If the latter, what airlock is best?

Cheers

 

[terrym]

Your basic equipment shopping list is in the link I provided in post #8 above.
For the FV you can operate it without an airlock but you then just crack the lid open in one place to allow the CO2 to escape.
However many people fit an airlock in the lid, sealed with a grommet, and that allows CO2 to vent. I use a small two part airlock and that suits me fine, others probably use the larger airlock, and others just use a tube from the lid leading into a jar of water (similar to a blow off tube). It's probably down to personal preference, but provided they adequately vent CO2 and don't allow back flow that's all that's is needed. But note airlocks are only as good as the seal between the lid and the FV which are often poor.
So in short I suggest you pick something and go with it. But its not an expensive bit of kit to change if you don't get on with your initial choice.

 

[The Baron]

do be aware that which ever type you choose if you are going to position the FV in a place which is used by other people that certain airlocks are noisier than others I used to use the sommellier type the taller ones that are S shaped if you look at them sideways on and they do make a rather loud plopping noise that could be heard from my kitchen in the living room and SWMBO kicked off and I now use the type that Terry mentioned the 2 part ones which seem to run quieter

 

[Farley]

Guys, thanks for the replies so far. Much appreciated.

I've done a bit of reading around the Cooper's Canadian Blonde kit and how others have modified it slightly. I'm thinking of buying the kit but replacing the 1kg of brewing sugar and 500g of brew enhancer it recommends with 1kg of Extra Light DME. I also plan to replace the 7g of yeast with 11g of Nottingham yeast. Finally I plan to add 1 Coopers Carb drop per 500ml bottle for some fizz.

Provided that sounds all ok, it's just the temperature and length of time I'm stuck on. Recommendation here was 23 degrees, the kit recommends 21-27 but others have suggested 17-18 if you modify the instructions as I have above. All have varying brewing times too.

Regardless, my garage is currently 9 degrees (it's a bit drafty in there), my house about 20. So neither seem ideal. I feel I may need to mod a small fridge to provide me some kind of temperature control. It will be useful for when I do get a bit more experienced and try some lagering. Or, do you think I can get away without that to begin with when using the Canadian Blonde kit?

Sorry forgot to say, I brew all my beer and cider in the hot-press which is a constant 23/24oC, works fine for me

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

A grommet and a cup-type airlock every time. If you can't find a fenrmenting bin with a grommet, grommets are pennies on Ebay and you can drill a hole in the lid
The S type airlocks are a pain in the arse to clean and have difficulty getting the two water levels equal.

Yes, there are breweries who use open Yorkshire squares,but remember, they've been at it for hundreds of years experience (and there's therefore probably plenty of friendly yeast living in the fabric of the brewery.

Yes, leaving the lid of the fermenter open a crack shouldn't give you too many problems, unless you're unlucky, but why take the chance for what is, over time a fraction of a penny a brew?

Jamil Zainasheff who before going pro won more US homebrew competitions than anyone else bottled his beer in a cleanroom. His general approach seems to be when giving advice when tastings beers seems to be along the lines of 'this is a great beer, but if you just did A, B or C, this would be a fantastic beer' and I think things like airlocks in fermenters falls under that category.

 

[Greg B]

Hey everyone.

Firstly, thanks for all the tips and advice. Much appreciated!

So Covid slowed everything down but I finally got all the kit in and kicked off the brew last Friday.

I went with the Canadian Blonde from Coopers, mixed it with 2 litres of cold water and then added 1 kg of extra light DME, and topped up to 23 litres.

With the fermentation bin in a bath of water I used the temp sensor and aquarium heater to get it up to 19 degrees and then added the yeast from the kit.

So.... 5 days later, I can see there's been some activity and I can see bubbling has risen up to touch the inside of the bucket lid. I can also see something has formed on top due to a ring around the inside of the bin which is visible from the outside. But, no signs of anything escaping from the air lock. Should there be?

Is it too soon to try measuring the gravity again. The kit suggests 6 days but I'm conscious I'm fermenting at 19 degrees rather than the 21-27 stated in the kit instructions.

I don't want to mess around with it too much but at the same time I don't want to leave it and miss the boat if there is indeed a boat to miss.

 

[marshbrewer]

But, no signs of anything escaping from the air lock. Should there be?

Don't worry about this; fermentation bins often aren't perfectly airtight, so the escaping CO2 will take the path of least resistance and escape via an ill fitting lid rather than the airlock. I've got a beer fermenting at the moment with the airlock bubbling away, I lifted the lid earlier today, and after I replaced it the airlock stopped. Now, it hadn't suddenly stopped fermentation, it's just the lid is a poor fit. It will be fine.

I don't want to mess around with it too much but at the same time I don't want to leave it and miss the boat if there is indeed a boat to miss.

Leave it for two weeks, then check the gravity. There isn't a boat to miss, in fact leaving it a bit longer will just let the yeast clean up after itself. Check the gravity after a couple of weeks, and if it's static three days in a row your good to bottle / keg. I know it's frustrating, but patience is one of the best skills you can learn when home brewing.

 

[terrym]

Hey everyone.

Firstly, thanks for all the tips and advice. Much appreciated!

So Covid slowed everything down but I finally got all the kit in and kicked off the brew last Friday.

I went with the Canadian Blonde from Coopers, mixed it with 2 litres of cold water and then added 1 kg of extra light DME, and topped up to 23 litres.

With the fermentation bin in a bath of water I used the temp sensor and aquarium heater to get it up to 19 degrees and then added the yeast from the kit.

So.... 5 days later, I can see there's been some activity and I can see bubbling has risen up to touch the inside of the bucket lid. I can also see something has formed on top due to a ring around the inside of the bin which is visible from the outside. But, no signs of anything escaping from the air lock. Should there be?

Is it too soon to try measuring the gravity again. The kit suggests 6 days but I'm conscious I'm fermenting at 19 degrees rather than the 21-27 stated in the kit instructions.

I don't want to mess around with it too much but at the same time I don't want to leave it and miss the boat if there is indeed a boat to miss.

Things are mostly going well by the sound of it. But if your FV to lid seal is leaking, CO2 will bypass the airlock. It often happens. Its just a nuisance. Next do not be tempted to hurry things along. I suggest you leave it until about day 10 and take an SG reading and another say on day 12. If the fermentation has finished (very likely at that stage) the readings should be the same and somewhere round about 1.010. If that's the case move your FV to the coldest place you have for a day or two and then go ahead and bottle.

 

[Greg B]

Hi All

Thanks for the comments. I took an SG reading last night at day 10 and it was 1.008. The OG was 1.031. I'll check again in a day or so but even if it drops a little still, ABV calcs put it at around 3% which is not as strong as I was expecting?

I used 1kg of extra light DME and am wondering if the relatively low OG was due to this? With more DME/sugar/BE to begin with would the OG have been higher and thus produced a stronger beer?

The best news is that it looks ace (although it's still a bit cloudy) and actually tastes like beer. I was well impressed. I guess you all remember that feeling during your first time brew when you realised you actually made beer

So far so good, thanks for the tips. I'll recheck the SG over the next few days, then any suggestions on procedure after that?

I don't have any containers for 2nd stage so plan to siphon straight to bottle and add carb drops/sugar.

I then keep the bottles initially in a warm place then move to a cool place? How long for each?

Lastly (sorry, I keep thinking of more questions), I have some Coopers Carb Drops which suggest 1 for 375ml bottles and 2 for 750ml bottles. I have 500ml bottles. I prefer more fizz to less fizz - would it be too risky to add 2? I can try and split them? Or I could use 1 drop and some normal sugar? Thoughts?

Last thing I want is to get this far and then blow everything up

Cheers all!

Keep safe

 

[ClownPrince]

Hi All

Thanks for the comments. I took an SG reading last night at day 10 and it was 1.008. The OG was 1.031. I'll check again in a day or so but even if it drops a little still, ABV calcs put it at around 3% which is not as strong as I was expecting?

I used 1kg of extra light DME and am wondering if the relatively low OG was due to this? With more DME/sugar/BE to begin with would the OG have been higher and thus produced a stronger beer?

The best news is that it looks ace (although it's still a bit cloudy) and actually tastes like beer. I was well impressed. I guess you all remember that feeling during your first time brew when you realised you actually made beer

So far so good, thanks for the tips. I'll recheck the SG over the next few days, then any suggestions on procedure after that?

I don't have any containers for 2nd stage so plan to siphon straight to bottle and add carb drops/sugar.

I then keep the bottles initially in a warm place then move to a cool place? How long for each?

Lastly (sorry, I keep thinking of more questions), I have some Coopers Carb Drops which suggest 1 for 375ml bottles and 2 for 750ml bottles. I have 500ml bottles. I prefer more fizz to less fizz - would it be too risky to add 2? I can try and split them? Or I could use 1 drop and some normal sugar? Thoughts?

Last thing I want is to get this far and then blow everything up

Cheers all!

Keep safe

I'd add one [carbonation drop] and a (small) half teaspoon of sugar.
What bottles are you using? Not all bottles are made equal.

 

[Banbeer]

I went with the Canadian Blonde from Coopers, mixed it with 2 litres of cold water and then added 1 kg of extra light DME, and topped up to 23 litres.

When you say 2L of cold water, did you mean boiling water? it needs to be boiling otherwise you won't dissolve the LME properly hence the low SG(starting gravity) of 1.031

 

[Greg B]

When you say 2L of cold water, did you mean boiling water? it needs to be boiling otherwise you won't dissolve the LME properly hence the low SG(starting gravity) of 1.031

Cheers Banbeer

I got some Amber Swing Top Bottles in Brown Glass from thehomebrewcompany

 

[Rodcx500z]

+1 Banbeer, you need very hot water to mix lme and dme the dme has a tendancey to clump and will not mix in cold water

 

[terrym]

@Greg B
When you use grain to brew beer the OG can be different to predicted due to mashing efficiency. But with kits whatever weight of sugars you put into the FV will always give you the same SG per unit volume. However if the sugars are not mixed properly you will get different readings, but the average will always be the same. I suspect that is what has happened in your case which accounts for the low OG. Your FG looks fine however.
And on what to do next this might help
Basic beginners guide to brewing your own beer from a kit - The HomeBrew Forum
I never use carb drops. To me they are an expensive way of carbing up your beer. Table sugar is cheap, predictable and importantly you can easily adjust the quantity of priming sugar to suit the style of beer whether it is measured by the teaspoon or whether you batch prime. Others can advise on how many carb drops to use in your bottles. But if you use table sugar and teaspoons and like highly carbed beer I suggest you use half tsp for 375ml, one level for the 750ml and somewhere in the middle for the 500ml bottles.

 

[Greg B]

When you say 2L of cold water, did you mean boiling water? it needs to be boiling otherwise you won't dissolve the LME properly hence the low SG(starting gravity) of 1.031

No, it was cold water

I'd read about boiling v's not boiling and most instructed to follow the kit instructions first so you know what the default is, then tweak afterwards if you use the same kit again. So, I followed the Cooper's instructions which simply states....

"Mix can contents with 2lt of water. Add recommended ingredients. Top with cold or hot water to 23lt to get brew temp between 21-27C. Add yeast."

The initial 2lt was rather clumpy but I persisted and got it pretty much all mixed before topping with cold water and then heated to 19C. Then I sprinkled yeast over the top and left it.

Ok, I'm learning. So I now realised I should've used hot water for that initial 2lt and maybe I should also have mixed the yeast in rather than just sprinkling on top?

 

[Banbeer]

This time of year my cold water is around 11degC so I immerse the can of Coopers or whatever kit I'm using in very hot water for 10mins in the sink to soften the ingredients inside. I then put the contents of the can/pouch in the FV and add a kettle full of boiling water to the FV also, I then mix the contents, I then add some more boiling water to the tin of extract to get more malt out of the tin and after stirring that I add the contents to the FV, I then fill to the 22L mark and test the temp with a sanitised thermometer and adjust temp using hot(from kettle) or cold water to 23L test temp again and if in limits aerate the contents so you have a nice foam on top add the yeast(I just sprinkle on top and never had a problem) pop the lid on and Bob's your uncle, let the magic start.

 

[Greg B]

Hi guys, thought I'd give an update....

Basically, I think the brew turned out awesome.

Firstly, it didn't spoil. Secondly, no bottle bombs. Thirdly, it tastes great. Result.

I experimented with 1, 1.5 and 2 drops per bottle. Definitely preferred the 2 drops, but that's just personal preference.

It's been 6 weeks since I bottled and I've not got much left. I started on them 2 weeks after bottling. Trouble is, once visitors (garden bound, no more than 6) get a taste, they disappear quite quickly!

Thanks for all your help and advice for a noob. I'm onto my next brew and already have questions. I'll start a new thread for those though

Cheers!!

 

[Banbeer]

Thanks for the update, awesome news, onwards and upwards with your next brew.

 

[dwhite60]

Hi guys, thought I'd give an update....

Basically, I think the brew turned out awesome.

Firstly, it didn't spoil. Secondly, no bottle bombs. Thirdly, it tastes great. Result.

I experimented with 1, 1.5 and 2 drops per bottle. Definitely preferred the 2 drops, but that's just personal preference.

It's been 6 weeks since I bottled and I've not got much left. I started on them 2 weeks after bottling. Trouble is, once visitors (garden bound, no more than 6) get a taste, they disappear quite quickly!

Thanks for all your help and advice for a noob. I'm onto my next brew and already have questions. I'll start a new thread for those though

Cheers!!

Congratulations! Enough time and the whole process becomes kind of automatic. I did a Cooper's Real Ale today and it was a bit of a struggle as I haven't done a kit in over 20 years and I was out of my routine.