Lager-like ale

[Greg B]

Hi

I'm just starting off on the road to brewing my first beer. I'm not set up for lagering yet and I'm warned away from trying it as my first attempt. I'm told I must get used to brewing ales first and then I can work towards lagering with a fermenting fridge set up. Trouble is....I don't particularly like ale. I like lagers, I like pilsners.

So, can anyone recommend a kit for a lager-type ale or pseudo lager than I can brew without any kind of temperature control?

Cheers!

Greg

 

[chthon]

Do you have a place in your home where the temperature is low and does not change too much?

 

[prog99]

This is an ale but comes out pretty crisp and could easily fool folk.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/myquls-brewday.60803/page-12#post-824710

 

[marshbrewer]

If you are looking for a kit, then Cooper's Canadian Blonde is a good starting point. If you can stretch to swapping the yeast with Wilko's Gervin Ale (aka repackaged Nottingham, about £2) and find somewhere coolish in your house to ferment it (around 16°C would be ideal) you should end up with a light, lager like ale without the need for lagering.

 

[The Baron]

Most of the so called kit Lagers are actually Pseudo lagers they use Top fermenting yeast so just check the can or look on the kit forum review for advise as to which one, from memory the Coopers European lager use s a real lager yeast but the other Coopers are top ferementers. Just find the coldest spot in the house and Lager it there generally a garage with a concrete floor should be good enough also ferment at a lower end of the yeast temp. Some of these kit pseudo lagers are good I personally do not do kits now but AG and I never make a real lager I pseudo it with a Kolsch yeast

 

[Greg B]

Do you have a place in your home where the temperature is low and does not change too much?

I've a North facing garage attached to the house which is pretty cool, yes.

 

[Hoddy]

Hi

I'm just starting off on the road to brewing my first beer. I'm not set up for lagering yet and I'm warned away from trying it as my first attempt. I'm told I must get used to brewing ales first and then I can work towards lagering with a fermenting fridge set up. Trouble is....I don't particularly like ale. I like lagers, I like pilsners.

So, can anyone recommend a kit for a lager-type ale or pseudo lager than I can brew without any kind of temperature control?

Cheers!

Greg

So you will need some temp control because you wont be able to ferment and brew anything half decent without being able to keep the beer stable between 19 - 20oC for the two weeks needed. So that you need to resolve that first.

the next step, i would recommend, if you want to brew something "lager like" would be to brew a Kolsch beer using Kolsch yeast. The CML Kolsch yeast is fine and is very reasonably priced. Start off with a 90% Pilsner Malt and 10% Vienna malt grist, mashed at 64oC with just using Saaz hops (about 10g at 60 mins, and another 30g at 15mins in the boil should do you) and then that will give you something to go from that will condition to a nice dry "lager like" beer.

If not also look up other Kolsch or Koln style beers if you want other lager type recipes. You can also copy the above using US05 yeast as well to some effect, but you do tend to need to ferment it colder and up your yeast dosing rate to achieve the same results.

 

[terrym]

@Greg B
Coopers Australian Pale Ale comes with a 50:50 ale:lager yeast which will chug away at 18*C and this produces a very clean light pale ale, a bit uninspiring but still very drinkable. Use 500g Light or Extra Light Dried Malt Extract and 500g brewing sugar (or all DME), and brew short to about 20/21 litres. There are ways of improving it like grain steeps and extra hops, but as its early days for you I would not bother. And whilst good temperature control is beneficial, you will still be able to brew beer provided the temperature doesn't drop too low thereby sending the yeast to sleep.
My advice to anyone starting brewing is try a couple of kits first to get to know how the brewing process works and to get your technique right then start thinking about whether you want to progress to all grain brewing.
You might also find this useful
Basic beginners guide to brewing your own beer from a kit - The HomeBrew Forum

 

[terrym]

Most of the so called kit Lagers are actually Pseudo lagers they use Top fermenting yeast so just check the can or look on the kit forum review for advise as to which one, from memory the Coopers European lager use s a real lager yeast but the other Coopers are top ferementers.

Both the Coopers Euro lager and the 86 day Pilsner come with 7g lager yeast but the recommended temperature for fermentation is ale type temperatures as far as I can remember. However you can ferment these kits as low as 15*C with the single kit yeast in my experience (and even lower for some others) although I used more yeast when I fermented at 13*C ish. However you are recommended to condition for 3 months which for some is too long to wait! The Coopers (Australian or Original) Lager comes with an Ale yeast as far as I am aware.

 

[marshbrewer]

Start off with a 90% Pilsner Malt and 10% Vienna malt grist,

*Cough* this is the kit forum *cough*

 

[foxbat]

*Cough* this is the kit forum *cough*

That's enough coughing - it's off to the isolation ward with you!

 

[Argentum]

Nottingham Ale yeast will give you a nice pseudo-lager if fermented in the range of 11-12 degrees C.

 

[prog99]

*Cough* this is the kit forum *cough*

Ah, in my defence I clicked on it from the side bar.

 

[Farley]

If you are looking for a kit, then Cooper's Canadian Blonde is a good starting point. If you can stretch to swapping the yeast with Wilko's Gervin Ale (aka repackaged Nottingham, about £2) and find somewhere coolish in your house to ferment it (around 16°C would be ideal) you should end up with a light, lager like ale without the need for lagering.

+1 on the Canadian blonde but use 1kg brewing sugar & 500g light spraymalt, I also just used the kit yeast & fermented at 23oC
Ended up with a nice crisp lager like beer around 4.5%

 

[Greg B]

Guys, thanks for the replies so far. Much appreciated.

I've done a bit of reading around the Cooper's Canadian Blonde kit and how others have modified it slightly. I'm thinking of buying the kit but replacing the 1kg of brewing sugar and 500g of brew enhancer it recommends with 1kg of Extra Light DME. I also plan to replace the 7g of yeast with 11g of Nottingham yeast. Finally I plan to add 1 Coopers Carb drop per 500ml bottle for some fizz.

Provided that sounds all ok, it's just the temperature and length of time I'm stuck on. Recommendation here was 23 degrees, the kit recommends 21-27 but others have suggested 17-18 if you modify the instructions as I have above. All have varying brewing times too.

Regardless, my garage is currently 9 degrees (it's a bit drafty in there), my house about 20. So neither seem ideal. I feel I may need to mod a small fridge to provide me some kind of temperature control. It will be useful for when I do get a bit more experienced and try some lagering. Or, do you think I can get away without that to begin with when using the Canadian Blonde kit?

 

[marshbrewer]

There is a 3rd option if you have power in the garage.

Buy one of those builders trubs, big enough to hold your fermenting vessel. Buy a cheap 40w aquarium heater (a few quid). Put fermenting vessel in trub, fill trub with water. Set aquarium heater to 17°, and drop it in the water. It heats the water, and thus the fv to the correct temp.

This only falls down when the temperature in your garage gets *above* 17°, which is only a couple of months a year in this country, and certainly not at the moment!

 

[Greg B]

There is a 3rd option if you have power in the garage.

Buy one of those builders trubs, big enough to hold your fermenting vessel. Buy a cheap 40w aquarium heater (a few quid). Put fermenting vessel in trub, fill trub with water. Set aquarium heater to 17°, and drop it in the water. It heats the water, and thus the fv to the correct temp.

This only falls down when the temperature in your garage gets *above* 17°, which is only a couple of months a year in this country, and certainly not at the moment!

Ok cool. So yep, I've got power in the garage. Something like you're suggesting seems to only cost about £1-2 a month. Seems like a good halfway house to a proper fridge and will get me up and brewing pretty quickly.

Thanks!

 

[pms67]

There is a 3rd option if you have power in the garage.

Buy one of those builders trubs, big enough to hold your fermenting vessel. Buy a cheap 40w aquarium heater (a few quid). Put fermenting vessel in trub, fill trub with water. Set aquarium heater to 17°, and drop it in the water. It heats the water, and thus the fv to the correct temp.

This only falls down when the temperature in your garage gets *above* 17°, which is only a couple of months a year in this country, and certainly not at the moment!

Seeing this isn’t the snug maybe we can be brewing buddies
I actually had an aquarium heater in my FV for 2 years, just drilled a 20mm hole in the lid and fitted a nylon stuffing gland and set it at 20 degrees and made some great beers before I upgraded.
It’s a good cheap temp control option

 

[Greg B]

So before I shell out on everything, does my plan above seem sensible? Thanks for the advice so far.

 

[terrym]

There is a 3rd option if you have power in the garage.

Buy one of those builders trubs, big enough to hold your fermenting vessel. Buy a cheap 40w aquarium heater (a few quid). Put fermenting vessel in trub, fill trub with water. Set aquarium heater to 17°, and drop it in the water. It heats the water, and thus the fv to the correct temp.

This only falls down when the temperature in your garage gets *above* 17°, which is only a couple of months a year in this country, and certainly not at the moment!

Like this
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-set-up-a-water-bath-for-your-fv.66407/