Kveik

[AdeDunn]

Edit. Just read the article again and noticed the i can "cheat" with lactic acid! Nice one Ade

Aye, I made sure I read a few opinions on the subject before suggesting it bud. The consensus appeared to be that it works, but may seem a bit 2 dimensional compared to "real" souring, with suggestions to try it on a sample beer first. I thought about it initially from all the times I've read cautions about using too much when adjusting mash pH with it and reaching the flavour threshold, and some saying it can actually be a good thing it styles like wheat beers.

 

[Inkman]

This way you won't need months to achieve sourness.

 

[BeerCat]

Well i threw 150g of centennial and amarillo into the FV and now the beer tastes really nice. Fruity, tropical and ready to drink. It has very little bitterness so i poured in some hop oil and put it to crash. Should keg this tomorow and start drinking.
Next sour i will bring inside so i can keep the heat up. Will give the sourdough starter a at some point.

 

[AdeDunn]

Another win with the Kveik here, the 2nd porter I brewed has finished at an FG of 1.013, giving me an apparent attenuation of 78.3%. As mentioned in my brew day thread, I added 1 tspn of Tonozymol 5 minutes before end of boil, and splashed lots by doing a double transfer to help the yeast.

I'm going to try to recover the yeast cake this time though for my stocks as I have very very little left after the golden ale I made yesterday. I'll probably do the same with the golden ale, make sure I have plenty of yeast in the fridge for once. lol

 

[Mavroz]

Hi I, is it liquid kviek you use or dry?

 

[AdeDunn]

The one I am using is liquid. Sigmund's Voss Kveik by the Yeast Bay (one of the White Labs brands). Might seem expensive initially, but so far I've done 3 brews (admittedly they were 13/14 litre brews...) from the 1 phial.... First brew I did, I made a 2 litre starter, then kept most of the yeast from this, just used a bit of it for the brew.

I plan to save the yeast from the FVs from the last 2 brews, so I have even more in stock.

 

[Mavroz]

Thanks for the reply Ade, I need to look into starters a bit more as I don't understand the process at the moment. Not sure what making 2 litres means and just using a bit in a brew.

I have read a couple of posts regarding saving yeast from brews. I am guessing this is the trub from the FV is it? If so, mine is usually mixed with a lot of hops which I guess is in usable?

Sorry for the questions but it is something I am getting interested in and hate not understanding what others are doing.

 

[BeerCat]

Imperial have a Norwegian farmhouse yeast called Loki. Have a look at over building a starter and top cropping. I don't tend to use yeast that has been dry hopped although you can. I generally save a quarter and build it up for next time.
you can also wash yeast but I have never done this. Top cropping is an easier method imho.

 

[Mavroz]

Thanks. You lost me at building a starter, before mentioning top cropping and yeast washing...
Any pointers or links to instruction?
Thanks.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi @Mavroz
Over-building a starter involves preparing, say, 3 litres of starter yeast when you only need 2 litres. The remaining litre is refrigerated and used to build the starter next time you brew.

 

[AdeDunn]

Hi @Mavroz
Over-building a starter involves preparing, say, 3 litres of starter yeast when you only need 2 litres. The remaining litre is refrigerated and used to build the starter next time you brew.

It's even easier with Kveik yeast Col, as you need such a small amount compared to a normal yeast, under-pitching is actually a good thing and won't ruin your beer. So basically, I was brewing a 13 litre beer, with an OG just short of 1.053. Beersmith 3 told me I needed a 1 litre starter under normal yeast rules, but truth is I needed much less than that with it been Kveik. So I made a 2 litre one, cold crashed it, used a tiny bit of the yeast for that brew, had enough for 2 more brews with a bit left that I can probably use to build up from again.

I don't fancy trying to wash yeast either to be honest, so will probably just dump the yeast again. I keep missing the opportunity to top crop, things always come up.... Shame really, there is a ton of yeast in the bottom of the porter FV, just sitting there... lol Top cropping Mavroz is scooping some of the Krausen off during the most active time, as this is when the yeast in there is at it's healthiest, and will quickly reproduce to replace the yeast you remove. Yeast washing basically is where you take the cake from the bottom of the FV and separate out the healthy yeast from all of the dead yeast and break material by getting it to fractionate, with the healthy yeast settling in a layer on the [edit]just did some research, as far as I can find, sources say from the middle layer...[/edit] sort of thing (that's my understanding anyway. Overbuilding is by far the easiest method though, where as Col says, you literally just get the yeast starter to reproduce to produce more yeast than you need to start your brew, and keep the difference back. Overbuilding is how I have gotten 41 litres of beer from 1 phial of yeast, with a tiny bit of yeast still left in the fridge to try to build up from still.... It makes the initial outlay (just over £8 for a phial) better value.

 

[BeerCat]

The sour that did not sour has been kegged last night and being drunk now. Lowest ABV beer brewed at 3.3%. Looks like a wheat and is crisp, refreshing with tropical hints. Bitterness is low and yeast has dropped. That's a perfectly drinkable session beer. There is no flavour from the yeast I can detect. Cannot remember how much I pitched but I believe it was on the low side. Fermentation was going within the hour.
An excellent 1week raw beer. Will try the sour again soon.

 

[BeerCat]

I am trying to pick holes in this beer and its not easy. So easy drinking would be perfect in the sun. would of mashed higher if i had known was going to be so low ABV as its a bit thin but its very quenching and has lots of hop flavour. I hate low alcohol beers generally but this is very drinkable. Tastes extremely fresh without tasting green.

 

[AdeDunn]

Quick update on my last post.

First up, I actually caught my golden ale at high krausen it seems, so managed to top crop a bit of yeast. So that's sat in a tub in the fridge now.

I also did some reading, and for the Sigmund's Voss strain at least, they advise (Lars Garshol himself apparently) against actually washing the yeast from the bottom. Apparently it works just fine to just scoop it off the bottom of the FV and put it in a sterile jar in the fridge, thanks to the very very high cell count with this strain, and also the face that it's not a super clean and pampered yeast but a farmhouse one. No hop matter in any of my FVs, as I use hop bags in the boil, and neither the porter or the golden ale are beers that needed a dry hop, so I'll just be harvesting the upper layers from the cake, and seeing how it goes.

 

[BeerCat]

Second attempt at souring has gone wrong. I put half a packet of sourpitch in there and after 18 hours I have fermentation and a medicinal taste to the wort. Zero sourness. Going to have to dump this this batch. Had no idea wild yeast could take hold so fast.

 

[BeerCat]

Just got home and dumped this batch. 24 hours to stink like poo. Looks like i need to bleach the FV and try another method. I suspect i did not pasteurise the wort properly as i did a full volume BIAB and left the bag in there.

 

[BeerCat]

I am starting to think the last beer did sour but not very much. Its almost lemony and slightly effervescent on the tongue. I don't think that comes from the yeast or hops. Going to use a full pack next time and see what the difference is.

 

[philt]

I am starting to think the last beer did sour but not very much. Its almost lemony and slightly effervescent on the tongue. I don't think that comes from the yeast or hops. Going to use a full pack next time and see what the difference is.

What IBUs are you shooting for with the sourpitch? I found going even as low as 10 seemed to inhibit the lactobacillus.
Also what temp are you pitching at? I found if I was trying to kettle sour too much below 40C I was getting loads of butyric stench.

 

[BeerCat]

What IBUs are you shooting for with the sourpitch? I found going even as low as 10 seemed to inhibit the lactobacillus.
Also what temp are you pitching at? I found if I was trying to kettle sour too much below 40C I was getting loads of butyric stench.

Hi, According to brewers friend there should of been 5 IBU's which i added to the mash. I doubt it was that much though as i could not detect any hops at all. I tried to pitch at 40c with the yeast but the belt was unable to maintain temp ( due to the particular FV i used) and it went down to the low thirties. I think it might work with more lacto.

The batch i just dumped smelled horrendous. I dumped it down the bog and had to open all the windows and bleach the toilet. I presume the "butyric stench" was the culprit. It started to reek about 5 hours after pitching the lacto.

Do you boil the wort first?

 

[Sadfield]

What was the pH before pitching? Could be you were lowering the pH from a high start point, so wouldn't necessarily notice any sourness given that beer is normally pretty acidic anyway.