Klarstein Maischfest - Mash Water calculation

[PeterB]

I have purchased a Klarstein Maischfest and am trying to workout how much water to use when mashing.

I know the Grainfather calculation for mash water is 2.7 x grain weight + 3.5 (so for 5kg it would be 17l of water).

However the gap between the inner metal grain holder (not sure of the name) and the actual Maischfest sides is over 20mm - so a significant amount of water will be stored there (I reckon 15% or the whole). Greater than the Grainfather.

There is dead space under the grain holder (still don't know the name) - I haven't measured it, but calculated it based on the kettle circumference at just over 3.5l - so I presume this is similar to the Grainfather value.

How this converts to a Beersmith equipment profile - no idea.

Can anyone help?

Cheers

 

[pottsworth]

The advice I got when I bought my mibrewery (klarstein badged differently) was a very specific sounding 3.27l of water per kg of grain.

 

[PeterB]

The advice I got when I bought my mibrewery (klarstein badged differently) was a very specific sounding 3.27l of water per kg of grain.

Hmm - I would have thought that was a little low as a rule of thumb (obviously the grain you are using and other factors would effect things anyway). It suggests less water than the Grainfather calculation - so you use 13.1l of water for 4kg and Grainfather calc suggests 14.3l, and for 5kg, 16.3hl against 17l.

How does it work out for you?

 

[peebee]

For my take on the Beersmith profiles visit @pottsworth other post (adaptions for Grainfather). The Beersmith adaptions are fairly complete and well explained, so be prepared to have your head mashed if you try to read it!

(EDIT: Sorry, forgot the link: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...-full-volume-boil-on-all-in-one-system.81609/)

 

[The Baron]

I use the Acewhich I am guessing is similar and mash @ 4.5 Ltrs to 1 kilo. A more fluid mash does help on these systems to evade stuck sparges so I use about 20ltrs to a 4 to 4.5 kilo grainbill approx and have done for many brews with a 12 ltr kettle sparge to give me a 28ltr pre-boil for a 23ltr brew

 

[PeterB]

For my take on the Beersmith profiles visit @pottsworth other post (adaptions for Grainfather). The Beersmith adaptions are fairly complete and well explained, so be prepared to have your head mashed if you try to read it!

(EDIT: Sorry, forgot the link: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...-full-volume-boil-on-all-in-one-system.81609/)

That's pretty comprehensive! Thank you. I think my biggest query is basically, how to account for the larger gap (compared with the Grainfather) between the inner grain holder cylinder and the outer as lots of water sits there adding heat, but not really having much to do with the grain as it never goes near it (mine has no pump).

 

[peebee]

Ah, well I never said it was for anything other than a Grainfather. But it does fairly comprehensively explains all the settings so it only needs you to figure out the equivalent value (like for that "gap", which is a "dead-space") and plug them into my instructions instead of the Grainfather ones. The article also grouses about Beersmith's inconsistent handling of water/grain ratio (sometimes includes "deadspace", sometimes doesn't) - watch out for that one!

As yours has no pump you will need to be fairly accurate. When doing it for a Grainfather a bit of inaccuracy goes unnoticed because the pumped recirculation quickly puts things right (to the point that the "normal" instructions for a Grainfather doesn't even have a strike temperature).

 

[pottsworth]

Ah apologies, I’ve probably given you some duff information in that case as mine does have a pump, so all of the liquid ends up getting recirculated.

That ratio worked fine for the first couple of brews, then number 3 had a load of oats and no rice hulls, so no volume of water could get it going!

 

[peebee]

… I think my biggest query is basically, how to account for the larger gap (compared with the Grainfather) between the inner grain holder cylinder and the outer as lots of water sits there adding heat, but not really having much to do with the grain as it never goes near it (mine has no pump).

It occurred to me that this aspect is a bit awkward, and it's dealt with different in Beersmith 2 to how it now is in version 3. The relevant bit in my document says (talking Beersmith here):

Under "MASH AND LAUTERING ADJUSTMENTS" there are significant differences between v2 and v3.
For "recoverable mash deadspace" (v3 only) enter 3.5L (many profile recommendations have this as
3.41L, but 90ml is perhaps a bit finicky). This is the volume under the grain basket that must become
part of the boil in a Grainfather system. For "mash deadspace losses" this is 0L for v3, but for v2 it is
3.5L and makes up part of a kludge to make v2 work right. Make sure "adjust mash vol<ume> for
losses" is checked. "Top up water for kettle" is 0L, but for v2 it will be 3.5L and is the second part of
that kludge (you don't actually add the 3.5L, it covers the deadspace losses that haven't actually
gone anywhere).

The "3.5L" is the "deadspace" in a Grainfather's mashtun (that's what needs changing to match your system), which is "recoverable" because the mashtun and boiler are the same thing so this "deadspace" goes nowhere and isn't lost. I believe Beersmith added that setting into v3 to handle one-pot brewing systems.

The "finicky" values (two decimal places) is probably due to direct conversions between US and metric units.

I've got my eye on that "top up water for kettle" setting to handle stronger ABV recipes in future!