Kit v All Grain Costs

[Keruso]

Just took delivery of this lot from brew2bottle so it got me thinking of the cost per pint of All Grain v Kit brewing so roughly the cost of the kit and brewing sugar, works out at the folliwing:
Ritchie Brown Ale = 29p
Mj Rose Cider = 53p
MJ Irish Red Ale = 51p
MJ Gold Lager = 31p

The cost is assuming you get the 40 pints, great value, so how does All Grain compare as fancy a go at AG but like most need to justify cost to the wifeyView attachment 25193

I was fond of craft brewed double IPA's, these can easily be over £5 for a 440ml can. A local brewery near me was charging £6.50 for a 440ml can recently. When I brew a double IPA with 300g+ of hops, two yeast packs especially if you buy liquid yeast can easily see a £40 - £50 cost for 20 litres, 35 pints or 45 440ml cans. This would cost approx £225 if I purchased the craft equivalent. That's a £180 saving. So I thought after 4 brew days I will recover the cost of a Grainfather ! My homebrew is as good if not better sometimes than the beers I used to buy, I don't think I could do it without an all-grain system. Even when compared to supermarket craft beer prices the homebrew equivalent is massively cheaper.

 

[terrym]

Crossmyloof seem to have the yeast market sorted, a great range and very low cost

I bought some packs of their Midland yeast the other week on the understanding that it is a Notty type, but have found its a bit like other CML yeasts that Ive tried ie it doesnt pack down very well

 

[pms67]

I bought some packs of their Midland yeast the other week on the understanding that it is a Notty type, but have found its a bit like other CML yeasts that Ive tried ie it doesnt pack down very well

I don’t like their Real Ale yeast (I think it’s called that)
But the Kolsch and especially the Pia yeast are excellent value for money

 

[MyQul]

I bought some packs of their Midland yeast the other week on the understanding that it is a Notty type, but have found its a bit like other CML yeasts that Ive tried ie it doesnt pack down very well

Thats interesting. Going by the name you'd assume it was notty. What its other charateristics, attenuation, how clean etc?

 

[terrym]

Thats interesting. Going by the name you'd assume it was notty. What its other charateristics, attenuation, how clean etc?

Used on three brews. 1.042/1.009 (ex packet) 1.041/1.010 1st gen recovered, (both conditioning) and the 2nd gen recovered is still in the FV. So thats 78% and 75% so far but I am never too bothered about SG readings so there is a little margin for SG error +/- 0.001. I mostly use clear PET bottles and can see that it clouds up when disturbed, but oddly there have been floating 'yeast islands' on the 2nd and 3rd brews at the end of the fermentation, possibly because I overpitched? I did notice on the 3rd beer that the krausen was really thick and creamy, Too early to tell yet on taste.

I don’t like their Real Ale yeast (I think it’s called that)
But the Kolsch and especially the Pia yeast are excellent value for money

I stopped using the Real Ale yeast because it clouds up too easily. But I have accepted that on the Cali Common and Kolsch yeasts and will continue to use those. I also used the Saison yeast on one beer last year and it turned out well and so bought some more to use later this year when the weather warms up.

 

[MyQul]

Used on three brews. 1.042/1.009 (ex packet) 1.041/1.010 1st gen recovered, (both conditioning) and the 2nd gen recovered is still in the FV. So thats 78% and 75% so far but I am never too bothered about SG readings so there is a little margin for SG error +/- 0.001. I mostly use clear PET bottles and can see that it clouds up when disturbed, but oddly there have been floating 'yeast islands' on the 2nd and 3rd brews at the end of the fermentation, possibly because I overpitched? I did notice on the 3rd beer that the krausen was really thick and creamy, Too early to tell yet on taste.

Sounds more like US-05 than notty

 

[MackemBrew]

I'd say, like most, I'm somewhere around 50p per pint so pretty comparable to kits.

Major cost seems to come from all these shiny things that some how keep appearing in my cupboard and fridge

 

[terrym]

Sounds more like US-05 than notty

Not used US-05 so cant say

 

[MyQul]

Not used US-05 so cant say

Can be powdery in the bottle with an attenuation of around 78%-79%. So similar to your experience with CML Midland.

 

[Slid]

Eh?...might want to revisit the maths there chief!

Yeah @£35 per 25kg for Base malt, that would be £7 per brew, if you get 5 brews per sack.
And @ £30 per 25kg, including the delivery cost, it is £6 per brew, making the same assumptions.
The incremental cost is thus £1 per brew. As I aim for 25L, the incremental cost is 4 pennies a litre.
I think that's what I meant, anyway.

 

[stevey]

AG, as I think you can see from this thread is way cheaper than kits, probably around half the cost, although you will have to take increased energy consumption into account.
I could make mine even cheaper if I could be bothered to wash and reuse yeast. Hops are expensive, but I've got loads stored. If you're anything like me, cost don't really come into it. It's about chasing something better all the time.
I bet if you see a kit you fancy you'll buy it at more than double the price of a 1 can kit.
We probably all start with a cheap starter kit and progress from there to 2 can kits, to craft kits, maybe then to extract, and finally to all grain.
You can justify the outlay to SWMBO however you like (she won't be totting it up anyway), but you'll be an all grain brewer sooner or later, it's inevitable. Resistance is futile.

 

[Hew's Brews]

Aha! No you dont. If you ferment using a yeast that's appropriate to the ambient temp you dont need temp control. This is how I brew

But doesn't the ambient temperature vary quite a lot? I had to build some brew fridges because there was nowhere in the house, shed or garage where the temp didn't wildly fluctuate througout the day.

 

[MyQul]

But doesn't the ambient temperature vary quite a lot? I had to build some brew fridges because there was nowhere in the house, shed or garage where the temp didn't wildly fluctuate througout the day.

Your right, ambient temp can vary quiet a lot and this flucctuation of temp is very bad for a fermentation. I'm lucky in that my brew corner in my kitchen the ambient temp doesnt seem to fluctuate hardly at all over the course of a day

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

Cheapest way to do AG would be:

• Low hop styles that use a little for bittering and low aroma, such as Scottish, Weizen, etc
• Repitch yeast or overbuild starter and reuse many times
• No boil
• No chill
• No kegs needing co2
• Buy grain and hops in bulk
• Cheap BIAB kit like an old FV with Tesco kettle element

Electricity costs me about £1.40 during boil, so reducing that will save some cash, hence no boil.

I wouldn't scrimp on fermentation temperature control, but you'd need this regardless of AG or kits.

Thanks for your tips will research the methods you suggest, as for the temp control I have had good results with the water bath and aquairium heater but never thought I had the space for a fermentation fridge but if I move things about could probably get another tall fridge to convert to a Fermentation fridge

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

AG, as I think you can see from this thread is way cheaper than kits, probably around half the cost, although you will have to take increased energy consumption into account.
I could make mine even cheaper if I could be bothered to wash and reuse yeast. Hops are expensive, but I've got loads stored. If you're anything like me, cost don't really come into it. It's about chasing something better all the time.
I bet if you see a kit you fancy you'll buy it at more than double the price of a 1 can kit.
We probably all start with a cheap starter kit and progress from there to 2 can kits, to craft kits, maybe then to extract, and finally to all grain.
You can justify the outlay to SWMBO however you like (she won't be totting it up anyway), but you'll be an all grain brewer sooner or later, it's inevitable. Resistance is futile.

I think you must work for the FBI Stevey as you have me 100% sussed out

 

[Cwrw666]

But doesn't the ambient temperature vary quite a lot? I had to build some brew fridges because there was nowhere in the house, shed or garage where the temp didn't wildly fluctuate througout the day.

I use our airing cupboard. Depending on the time of year I'll either have the door shut, open a crack or wide open. Doing that I can keep the temperature steady at around 20c.
In a heatwave, oh yeah like that happens a lot, there are various rooms in the house that stay at usable temperatures.

 

[Mangold]

There are a lot of posts here. I haven't read them all but would say the following.

Can kits always have a twang to me. You never get this with ag or biab!

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

There are a lot of posts here. I haven't read them all but would say the following.

Can kits always have a twang to me. You never get this with ag or biab!

Thanks Mangold, suppose the logical next step would be BIAB until Robobrew get new machines sorted

 

[gar]

I went the other way... all grain biab steadily got worse and ended always with a twang . So I moved on to kits, ritchies and coopers, no twang.

 

[Mangold]

Thanks Mangold, suppose the logical next step would be BIAB until Robobrew get new machines sorted

If I didn't have a grainfather I would def biab. I only got a gf because of temp control and chilling. But loved biab and made some unreal beers using it.

Ferment temp control is also very important.