Just placed an order on brew2bottle to see how it goes.

[White Rose Al]

We don't know 100% what has gone on but until we start to see posts here about orders taking a long time to arrive or not arriving I don't see why members and guests reading this should worry.

If in doubt, order by credit card to safeguard the purchase.

 

[MickDundee]

We don't know 100% what has gone on but until we start to see posts here about orders taking a long time to arrive or not arriving I don't see why members and guests reading this should worry.

Nothing to worry about apart from the Liquidation statement posted on Companies House indicating that their stock is made up of £500k worth of gear that has been sold to the phoenix company for £8k with the suppliers seeing nothing of the money they were owed?

As stated elsewhere, what they have done is completely legal, but that doesn’t mean that those of us who are concerned about the ethics of this practice are being irrational/unreasonable.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Some of us expect businesses we use to act with a bit of integrity though - if they aren’t paying their creditors then I would feel uncomfortable using them especially if they have set up a new Phoenix company to get away from their debts.

The lack of any kind of counter-statement; the lack of response to emails; the fact that their About Us page stopped referring to Virtual Distribution Limited and now refers to Brew2Bottle Limited; the fact that Virtual Distribution Limited is now in liquidation; and the fact that half of their directors resigned at the end of February doesn’t prove anything, but it certainly gives me a bad feeling about using them.

If you don't want to buy from them don't no one is forcing anyone here to use them but while they still sponsor the forum and are still fulfilling orders I will have no hesitation in linking to their stuff if members ask about online shops etc.

 

[MickDundee]

If you don't want to buy from them don't no one is forcing anyone here to use them but while they still sponsor the forum and are still fulfilling orders I will have no hesitation in linking to their stuff if members ask about online shops etc.

Bingo

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Nothing to worry about apart from the Liquidation statement posted on Companies

As I said above while they are sponsors and they are fulfilling orders I see no reason to stop linking to their site.

 

[clib]

We don't know 100% what has gone on but until we start to see posts here about orders taking a long time to arrive or not arriving I don't see why members and guests reading this should worry.

I understand you are sticking up for a forum supporter, but there seems to be actual evidence of dodgy behaviour and I understand people's misgivings. At the end of the day, the morality of the situation is more important than a bit of sponsorship, I think.

And, although it looks like my parcel will come today, 6 days after I ordered from 30 miles away, why don't they answer the phone, and why is their answer machine full? And why as forum sponsors are they not reassuring members on here who have regularly bought from them?

 

[clib]

No room in the brew fridge - might get a brew on Sunday depending whether my wit has finished, M21 can take a bit longer.

Are you another M21 fan? I've got it arriving today for the first time from B2B, fingers crossed!

 

[MickDundee]

Are you another M21 fan? I've got it arriving today for the first time from B2B, fingers crossed!

Yeah, it’s my usual witbier yeast. I’ve only used it and WLP400 for wits, and I preferred M21. Might give the Lallemand one a go next time but this one is for the LAB comp so I didn’t want to add any new variables.

 

[Sgttomcat]

I haven't posted before preferring to use the forum as a very good source of advice, views and reviews.
As an A.G and kit brewer and wine maker for almost 30 years I have used b2b for many orders and have had a great service from them and the couple of times I had issues they were resolved immediately.
I decided to place an order for some of thier own brand cider kits (which in fairness are very good) unfortunately these seem to have been damaged in transit and were disposed of by dpd before delivery (which had happened on the previous cider kit order and was sorted out by b2b very quickly). I have made many daily attempts to contact them by phone, email and thier own Web contact page. No reply what so ever and no phone message availability.

Thankfully I paid by credit card and will be making a claim.

I hope they do resolve their issues as they have been good but I wanted to make members aware of my own experience over the last week.

 

[Rodcx500z]

My view, i have no sympathy for young's at all, they should be looking at their accounts managers who let this large sum of money accumelate and then start bleating about it, if i owned young's said managers would now be claiming uc, i think in the USA it is called cost of doing business

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I understand you are sticking up for a forum supporter, but there seems to be actual evidence of dodgy behaviour and I understand people's misgivings.

I am not sticking up for them just because they sponsor the site I would say the same for any shop in the same position especially having read how Young's dealt with this on their site, they havent messed our members about so see no reason to stop linking to their site.
Members and guests can make their own minds up they can either trust them on past experience buy with a credit card if a little worried or give them a miss if very worried that's the beauty of having choice.

 

[Leon103]

My view, i have no sympathy for young's at all, they should be looking at their accounts managers who let this large sum of money accumelate and then start bleating about it, if i owned young's said managers would now be claiming uc, i think in the USA it is called cost of doing business

Most likely it was one order that wasn't paid for. Many businesses won't be in existence if there wasn't a debitor/creditor system in place

 

[Nashbrew]

I see they have now stopped responding on there chat service as well now.
I also contacted Keg King in Australia to see if they were continuing to supply B2B or the UK and they said an announcment was imenent, but would not elaborate.

 

[MickDundee]

I am not sticking up for them just because they sponsor the site I would say the same for any shop in the same position especially having read how Young's dealt with this on their site, they havent messed our members about so see no reason to stop linking to their site.
Members and guests can make their own minds up they can either trust them on past experience buy with a credit card if a little worried or give them a miss if very worried that's the beauty of having choice.

Young’s statement certainly wasn’t professional, but the liquidation statement that has been linked in this thread gives some solid evidence that B2B have left them £27k in the hole, and the dates etc between the liquidation statement and Youngs tie up even though Youngs posted it weeks ago and B2B only lodged the paperwork this week. Suppliers being shafted is no less of a bad business practice than customers being shafted.

Using a credit card won’t discourage businesses from folding and restarting to avoid paying their creditors, and you constantly repeating the same completely unrelated point about them still fulfilling orders won’t stop me and others from having concerns about the ethics of these so-called phoenix companies.

 

[Davegase]

I understand you are sticking up for a forum supporter, but there seems to be actual evidence of dodgy behaviour and I understand people's misgivings. At the end of the day, the morality of the situation is more important than a bit of sponsorship, I think.

And, although it looks like my parcel will come today, 6 days after I ordered from 30 miles away, why don't they answer the phone, and why is their answer machine full? And why as forum sponsors are they not reassuring members on here who have regularly bought from them?

You say you ordered on a Friday, the standard delivery is up to 5 (working days). So not really an issue then.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

and you constantly repeating the same completely unrelated point about them still fulfilling orders won’t stop me and others from having concerns about the ethics of these so-called phoenix companies.

Talking of repetition you have said several times in the thread you have no intention of using them I think everyone has got that now.

Again as I said members and guests reading this have 3 choices pay as they always have, use a credit card if they are a little concerned and like you shop elsewhere if you no longer trust them.

 

[StJayJay]

One of the other creditors in the statement appears to be an independent Homebrew shop in Glasgow who were owed £7k

I know the place well, they set me up with all my stuff when I first started brewing.
There are lots of other small suppliers on that list also, local IT companies, packaging suppliers.
Hopefully it won’t be an existential issue for some of these guys, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some have to put costs up to cover losses, which is not great for any of us.
Then there’s the £200k owed to HMRC that will mostly be written off. It’s not a Google-scale tax thing but it’s still galling.

 

[Rodcx500z]

You only have to look at those who set examples of this practice, sir Phillip Green Robert Maxwell, and countless others, these are the very people we look up to for insperation P&O Carrilion the list is endless

 

[clib]

You say you ordered on a Friday, the standard delivery is up to 5 (working days). So not really an issue then.

I agree. Even though it's 6 days. The issue is that they don't respond to phone calls, emails or their online chat system, and also their alleged non payment of suppliers, and going into liquidation but continuing to do business. And non payment of taxes.

Yes we do have a choice Chippy, and I chose to buy from them this time. I'm not feeling comfortable about that at the minute, though.

 

[xozzx]

Even though they are still fulfilling orders they appear to have zero support, if there is an issue with your order you only have the option to claim back from your credit card. How is this still a business worth supporting? I buy almost all my brewing stuff from 2 suppliers, both of which have amazing customer service and may be slightly more expensive but worth it knowing that any issue will be sorted immediately.

A business who does not answer the phone or reply to emails is definitely not worth defending.