inkbird being a little intense

[jezbrews]

I have the inkbird ITC-308 and I find it difficult to control the mash temperature with it, I'm probably setting the parameters incorrectly. If I want the mash temp at, say, 66C, I'll set the lower limit to 65 and upper to 67, as I don't want it cooling or overheating and failing to convert properly. However what I'm finding is happening is it will allow the temp to drop to 65 and instead of gently sending more power to the kettle to bring it back, it just goes full blast. The heater of the thermostat may decided to switch off at 66, but the power sent to the element means it ends up flying over my 67C max target.

Basically, the Inkbird is being super kneejerk about how it controls the temperature. I assume I can't control the extent to which it does this, but there must be a way of ensuring it doesn't trying and cook the ever loving hell out of the mash just because it's hit the bottom end of the narrow window, maybe setting parameters differently but I'm not sure what would work. Has anyone found their inkbird to be overreactive and found a way to work around it?

 

[Scrattajack]

Maybe a rheostat between the power supply and the element?

I had a similar problem on my old Klarstein, you could only switch it between 3kw and 1.5kw and even 1.5 caused it to heavily overshoot.

 

[The Baron]

What power is the heating element or if you can set it what are you setting it at as too much power will make it overshoot IMO

 

[gyurmaember]

Itc 308 is a simple on/off controller, this is how they work.
You can get a smaller heating element, or reduce the power with a separate device, that might make the overshooting better.(just think about the switch on some 3in1 kettles)

 

[peebee]

As @gyurmaember has suggested, the ITC308 is working as it should. You are expecting it to function like a PID or PI device which it isn't.

For PID or PI type devices to work reliable you probably need some sort of "recirculation". Most users will go for good insulation to do the job instead.

 

[jezbrews]

Thanks for your responses everyone.

Maybe a rheostat between the power supply and the element?

I had a similar problem on my old Klarstein, you could only switch it between 3kw and 1.5kw and even 1.5 caused it to heavily overshoot.

So I had to look up what a rheostat was, I think I get the general gist, my problem is that on YouTube there appears to be not a single video on how to use one in that context. I'm not sure how I'd go about using one as I'm no electrical engineer and I wouldn't want to damage anything. Google isn't any more helpful unfortunately. If you know of a resource on how to use one in the context of brewing with a thermostat and boil kettle to ensure slow steady power flow I'd really appreciate it.

What power is the heating element or if you can set it what are you setting it at as too much power will make it overshoot IMO

It's this: 25L Stainless Steel Brew Kettle 2.4kW it appears. Looks pretty high powered. It might be that getting it to temp then just killing it and insulating is my best bet!

Itc 308 is a simple on/off controller, this is how they work.
You can get a smaller heating element, or reduce the power with a separate device, that might make the overshooting better.(just think about the switch on some 3in1 kettles)

That's what I understood, I just thought maybe if I set parameters differently that it might achieve what I'm looking for, like if I want the heat to be 66C then setting the cut off at 65C then this might achieve the same thing, if others have found this to work.

As @gyurmaember has suggested, the ITC308 is working as it should. You are expecting it to function like a PID or PI device which it isn't.

For PID or PI type devices to work reliable you probably need some sort of "recirculation". Most users will go for good insulation to do the job instead.

To be fair it's not that I'm expecting it to work like a particular thing, I don't know how a PID device works, although you may be right that I'm not understanding how it does work. Yes, it appears insulation might work, I'm just concerned this may not be sufficient in sustaining a decent conversion temperature. I'm not sure how I'd test this though without potentially ruining and wasting a batch.

 

[The Baron]

I Think that the high wattage element you have is either on or off with the Inkbird and that it is virtually impossible to control the heat with the accuracy you are wanting as 2 degrees is about the norm. Those with AIO's set the mash element temp at a lower setting so that when the heater is on it does not put as much power into the mash (most have 2 elements) that give lets say as a example one element @ 2000 watts and one @ 500 watts so that the lower one can be used in the mash period and helping to give more temp stability

 

[peebee]

...
That's what I understood, I just thought maybe if I set parameters differently that it might achieve what I'm looking for, like if I want the heat to be 66C then setting the cut off at 65C then this might achieve the same thing, if others have found this to work.

As @gyurmaember has suggested, the ITC308 is working as it should. You are expecting it to function like a PID or PI device which it isn't.

For PID or PI type devices to work reliable you probably need some sort of "recirculation". Most users will go for good insulation to do the job instead.

To be fair it's not that I'm expecting it to work like a particular thing, I don't know how a PID device works, although you may be right that I'm not understanding how it does work. Yes, it appears insulation might work, I'm just concerned this may not be sufficient in sustaining a decent conversion temperature. I'm not sure how I'd test this though without potentially ruining and wasting a batch.

It is what you're expecting! You've just described it (roughly). PIDs are just a bit more subtle about it (they switch off for longer and longer periods as they get closer to target temperature and you don't have to think about it. PID stands for three of the operations your Maths teacher used to torture you with, so good job you don't have to think about it. And you don't need the "D" bit 'cos our systems are so s-l-o-w (I disable it on mine ... makes the configuring easier). So just P. I. (whatever that stands for ).

They are a buzz thing for homebrewers 'cos their HERMS, RIMS, One-pot (a type of RIMS) near enough depend on them.

As you don't appear to have sunk into these technological abysses, you are definitely fodder for loads of insulation and a happy life not traumatised by trying to keep a big bowl of porridge within a degree or two of some "ideal" with an element designed to boil a few cups of water to make tea.


(Have you noticed; I do a good line in not making myself popular about here ).

Actually, if you really, really, enjoy tinkering, don't let me put you off. PIDs will provide hours of fun.

 

[jezbrews]

Thanks everyone. I've got the unineviable combination of irresistable need to control the process but also not having the income to support the purchases needed haha. This might be a learning opportunity for me to just suck it up and buy neoprene and make a jacket for it, cutting the necessary holes for my needs. I might buy enough to make two, with the other for my fermenter.

 

[Caramel Ox]

If you lower the heating differential to the minimum on the inkbird I think it will work better for you. The heating element will be on and off more frequently and it will stay closer to your target.

 

[OliH]

Just a note. I think you’re on the power limit of the Inkbird? They can handle 10amps, which you are pulling with a 2400w heater. If that’s switching on and off repeatedly, by lowering the heating differential, it might not last long.
Correct me if I’m talking rubbish!

 

[MashBag]

What they said...

And this is a "no wiring" solution.

On ebay search "220v 4000w scr" get a plug in one. These are power controllers. MAKE SURE YOU GET A UK PLUG

On amazon. Search "power meter plug" like this.
Nevsetpo Power Meter UK Plug Power Monitor Watts Meter Electricity Usage Cost Meter Monitor Plug Amazon.co.uk

Install...
Plug together in the following order.
Inkbird (heating) > meter > controller > element

Usage...
Set the meter to read watts. Turn knob.
Set about 500 ways on the meter.

Think of it like turning the gas up and down on the stove. You will find the best setting. 500 watts is a good starting place.

IMPORTANT BIT... Remove for boiling. SCR's don't like running at 100% and will get uncomfortably warm.

 

[MashBag]

Just a note. I think you’re on the power limit of the Inkbird? They can handle 10amps, which you are pulling with a 2400w heater. If that’s switching on and off repeatedly, by lowering the heating differential, it might not last long.
Correct me if I’m talking rubbish!

Very good point. The whole issue is the element is too big. Adding "a knob" will solve

 

[OliH]

Alternatively…. Does the pot fit in the oven?
I have a 20l pot. I just pre warm the oven to the lowest temperature (50-60deg) stick the pot it and turn the oven off.
It maintains temperature very well even when stirred every 20 mins.
I like keeping it basic.

 

[peebee]

Very good point. The whole issue is the element is too big. Adding "a knob" will solve

Oh aye! Yeah, it is a good point. And you think I'll solve it? (I'm "a knob").

Those "find 'em everywhere" little blue "10A" () Chinese relays in the ITC308 I wouldn't think twice about letting them control a 60W light bulb. But a 2.4kW heating element ... ?

Give me a moment ... think once ... nope .... think twice ... nope ... think thrice .... nope .... err, best give me a while and I'll get back if the answer swings to "yes" ...

 

[MashBag]

Lol. "I am a knob"
Good I am glad we agree this is not an inkbird problem.

@jezbrews. Did you sort it?

 

[jezbrews]

Hey, sorry I haven't responded in a while. Our landlady decided to completely replace our kitchen. No brewing going on yet as a result but hopefully restarting soon! I will look into these options and get back, thank you! As a trainee I'm just over minimum wage so buying new products will take a while, having to spread them out. They are also somewhat lower priority as I want to replace my under the counter second fridge with a chest freezer (it's not actually under a counter, so I can easily access it from the top) and some kegs. Not a lot of point brewing if my storage solutions are poor and currently, I have no stable way of keeping bottles. They are just in the dining room under the stairs which is fairly open and if we have another heatwave this summer, will be ruined, so going for kegging, gradually building up a small collection, probably three or four max.

On the plus side, our new tap appears to have a fitting I can unscrew to get a coupler and thus cool properly! The old sink had old taps that weren't possible and I was having to use a hosepipe from the electric shower unit which was difficult to keep cold as increased pressure causes the unit to heat the water.

 

[Druncan]

Hey would this work?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electronic...locphy=20342&hvtargid=pla-1889079278148&psc=1
:tinhat:

 

[MashBag]

Yes. Prolly not my choice, but they do.

I prefer the white ones. In the simple case with a knob.

 

[Mash Monster]

Yes. Prolly not my choice, but they do.

I prefer the white ones. In the simple case with a knob.

Just a word of warning with using an Inkbird 308 to control the mash and boil. I have been using one for about 12 months now to control my RIMS system which uses a 2.2 Kw element as the main heater with a 1.5Kw in the RIMS tube. (Always used independently never on together ) Everything has been fine until a couple of brews ago. The inkbird socket melted after a 60 min boil with main element and welded itself to the plug of the element !
I’m currently just using the inkbird to control the smaller element only until I can find a plug and play PID option (if anyone has hot any ideas please let me know as I can’t see anything much cheaper than £1000.)
I have been told that I may have experienced a voltage drop which could have caused the 2.2Kw element to draw more current exceeding the 10amps max of the inkbird hence it melting. I’m not sure what happened though.
Just saying be careful when using the inkbird controller on its limit .