Infection idiocy!

[louis macneice]

A while ago I posted that I'd never had to tip any beer down the drain. Well since Christmas I've lost two batches.

The first was a BIAB ESB; 23lts of hoppy malty goodness, fermented with WLP007 yeast and sat outside the back door for some cold crashing for a good week over the festive period.

When I came to bottle it I knew something wasn't right; there was a slight vinous smell and taste. But being a tight wad - and an 'experienced brewer' ha ha ha - I convinced myself that all was ok and went ahead.

So far so bad. What was much much worse, was that I then went on to pitch a batch of BIAB barley wine with some of the slurry from the ESB!

So the up shot is that due to a combination of laziness (should have bottled the ESB a lot earlier), greed (not wanting to waste the time and money spent so far on the brews) and impatience (I've got the yeast slurry ready to go...so I'm going to pitch it), I've lost 38lts of potential quaffing pleasure, numerous hours of my valuable time and a fair few quid.

All of which has left me feeling out of sorts with brewing and not a little anxious, to the extent that I have yet to get a brew on this year...which isn't like me.

My reason for posting this, is just to say that while brewing beer can be simple and fun, don't cut corners; the cost of being greedy, lazy and impatient are numerous and simply not worth it.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Wardy]

Sorry to hear that Louis, that's sickening bad news but thanks for sharing. My experience is also partly made up from the experience of others.
Don't give up and good luck with the next brew.

 

[Joeyriles]

I had the smug 'not lost a batch yet' feeling until this summer. Had a batch of Landlord clone go bad on me through leaving it too long in the FV in fairly warm temperatures and I felt like shedding a tear when I tipped it.

Get back on the horse, Louis. Beer making is a noble art and your ancestors would be proud!

 

[Slid]

Ouch!

My sympathies, Louis. I agree with Wardy that you should move on. Sterilise everything that came into contact with the 2 bad brews and get on to the next brew.

 

[brumbrew]

Ouch!

My sympathies, Louis. I agree with Wardy that you should move on. Sterilise everything that came into contact with the 2 bad brews and get on to the next brew.

I had this once. And followed the same advice. Cleaned everything thoroughly and I mean thoroughly. Sterilized everything and replaced a few bits. Such as racking canes, taps etc.

I periodically buy new FVs too. They get micro scratches inside that can harbour bad stuffs

 

[Leon103]

What is actually wrong with it? Apart from smelling a bit funny?

 

[Sandimas]

I've just been through a similar experience, except I've lost 6 brews!

Have you identified what the root cause is? Because leaving it too long doesn't sound like it, there must be an infection in there somewhere - do you know where (which FV if you have more than one) and why?

Only saying because my infection has been extremely persistent and in mutliple places, and has taken a lot of cleaning, sterilisation and bleach to get rid of - and I'm still not sure it's 100% gone.

 

[brumbrew]

I've just been through a similar experience, except I've lost 6 brews!

Have you identified what the root cause is? Because leaving it too long doesn't sound like it, there must be an infection in there somewhere - do you know where (which FV if you have more than one) and why?

Only saying because my infection has been extremely persistent and in mutliple places, and has taken a lot of cleaning, sterilisation and bleach to get rid of - and I'm still not sure it's 100% gone.

How long have you had your kit? Spoon, buckets pipework etc?

 

[Sandimas]

How long have you had your kit? Spoon, buckets pipework etc?

Pipework gets replaced regularly but the rest is about 4 years old. Do people regularly replace their FV, barrels etc?

 

[GHW]

Louis, at least you know what caused the second one...

Scrap any plastic kit involved is my only advice.

 

[brumbrew]

As Gareth said. Scrap your plastic kit after a while. It's a shame but it's as 're-investment' saves pouring money and time down the drain.

I wouldn't say there's a date. Just when the inside started to get scratched or its looking a bit more cloudy (the plastic)

One of my old FV has cloudy looking scars on the side from trying to stir in DME back in my kit brew days ;-)

 

[Hops_and_Dreams]

Bad luck Louis.

I've yet to lose one (fortunately), but I think a certain amount of complacency has set in because of this in my brewing. A reminder to do the boring stuff properly.

 

[Dutto]

Losing a brew is always a shame ...

... and losing two consecutive brews was a major (but not the only) reason that I gave up brewing for nearly 40 years.

Just before last New Year SWMBO and I went on a tour of the Yorkshire Brewery at Cropton and the most significant thing that I noticed was that sterilising fluids were to be seen everywhere on the site.

Whether in use from a lone plastic can, or a complete pallet full still wrapped in plastic sheeting ready for use, it was obviously a major element of what they do.

I agree with the previous comments about scratched plastic being difficult or impossible to sterilise but not all of us have the money to lash out on stainless steel so I suggest that you renew where possible and take care with the sterilising when it isn't.

Either way, don't give up such a great pastime! :nono: :nono: :nono:

 

[nbpicklesno2]

Been there, done that. The arrogance of the 'experienced brewer'.

I know this is a moot point for the Star San brigade, but I notice that bleach seems to be de rigueure for the elimination of a persistent infection. Possibly, just possibly, it may be the answer to the prevention of persistent infections in the first place.

Just sayin'.

Don't shoot the messenger.





Dirty bleach user

 

[louis macneice]

What is actually wrong with it? Apart from smelling a bit funny?

They both tasted like vinegar; which would be okay if I'd been making vinegar...but I wasn't.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[louis macneice]

I will be brewing again. The end of next week I'll be doing a partial mash with lots of lovely US hops to perk up a Coopers Australian Pale Ale.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Spoon]

I know this is a moot point for the Star San brigade, but I notice that bleach seems to be de rigueure for the elimination of a persistent infection. Possibly, just possibly, it may be the answer to the prevention of persistent infections in the first place.

Just sayin'.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I'll be honest, I don't 100% trust star-san, a few squirts into the FV never looks like enough! I usually clean everything with normal cleaner sanitiser (metabisulphate or unscented bleach) immediately after use (including taking taps off FV's), rinse it, and put back together with the lid on it (and store it in the house not the garage) thinking that if it's as clean as the stuff I eat off it's probably clean enough. Then on brewing day or bottling day I keep an old FV to hand and everything that get's stanitised goes into that, and every time I put my hands in it I give them a spray of star-san. That way I never turn around and find the tail of a syphon or the funnel for dispensing dextrose into bottles, or some other bit of kit accidentally lying on the floor.

Problem is, I find you can be relatively lax with hygiene and get away with it, so to get from that to 100% success can seem like a lot of effort to prevent the occasional misshap!

On a tangent, does Star-San have a shelf life once diluted? I made up 10l of it and put it in an old barrel, will it still be good in a couple of weeks for bottling? What about a couple of weeks after that for cleaning the FV in the next batch? It's pretty cloudy, but apparently that's just the effect of our ridiculously hard water.

 

[louis macneice]

I've just been through a similar experience, except I've lost 6 brews!

Have you identified what the root cause is? Because leaving it too long doesn't sound like it, there must be an infection in there somewhere - do you know where (which FV if you have more than one) and why?

Only saying because my infection has been extremely persistent and in mutliple places, and has taken a lot of cleaning, sterilisation and bleach to get rid of - and I'm still not sure it's 100% gone.

I'm pretty certain the cause is me lifting the FV lid to have sneak peeks and take completely unnecessary 'hydrometer samples' (shame to waste them...cheers); I've been giving the nasties too many chances of getting in and unsurprisingly they've taken one.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[MyQul]

Been there, done that. The arrogance of the 'experienced brewer'.

I know this is a moot point for the Star San brigade, but I notice that bleach seems to be de rigueure for the elimination of a persistent infection. Possibly, just possibly, it may be the answer to the prevention of persistent infections in the first place.

Just sayin'.

Don't shoot the messenger.


Dirty bleach user

I've had a couple of wild yeast infections and whilst I'm a star san user, bleach (as well as heat in the form of boiling water or putting whatever wont melt in the oven) is my nuclear option to deal with these infections

 

[louis macneice]

Been there, done that. The arrogance of the 'experienced brewer'.

I know this is a moot point for the Star San brigade, but I notice that bleach seems to be de rigueure for the elimination of a persistent infection. Possibly, just possibly, it may be the answer to the prevention of persistent infections in the first place.

Just sayin'.

Don't shoot the messenger.


Dirty bleach user

I too am a 'dirty bleach user'; that and Lidl's finest W5 Oxiclean. As I said above my problem was exposing the beer to nasties too many times and then compounding the error by pitching infected slurry.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice