Infection idiocy!

[cheapbrew]

Been there, done that. The arrogance of the 'experienced brewer'.

I know this is a moot point for the Star San brigade, but I notice that bleach seems to be de rigueure for the elimination of a persistent infection. Possibly, just possibly, it may be the answer to the prevention of persistent infections in the first place.

Just sayin'.

Don't shoot the messenger.





Dirty bleach user

What do you rinse the bleach of with though? do you use sanitised water or what?

 

[Simonh82]

What do you rinse the bleach of with though? do you use sanitised water or what?

In this podcast http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390...53382543&hwt=e47d54a3a4e133da05ad7cf89b4236a3 the Star San founder advocates an acidulated bleach solution as an alternative no rinse option to Star San. 1oz of white vinegar, 5 gallons of water and 1oz of unscented thin bleach (US imperial measurements). Never mix the bleach and vinegar directly unless you want to gas yourself with chlorine. :nono:

Despite the very small amount of bleach used, the acidification makes it something like 80 times as effective at destroying microbes as standard bleach.

 

[MyQul]

In this podcast http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390...53382543&hwt=e47d54a3a4e133da05ad7cf89b4236a3 the Star San founder advocates an acidulated bleach solution as an alternative no rinse option to Star San. 1oz of white vinegar, 5 gallons of water and 1oz of unscented thin bleach (US imperial measurements). Never mix the bleach and vinegar directly unless you want to gas yourself with chlorine. :nono:

Despite the very small amount of bleach used, the acidification makes it something like 80 times as effective at destroying microbes as standard bleach.

Think we had a discussion about this a few weeks back. Worth doing I think if you don't want to buy star san

 

[TartanSpecial]

I'm one of the 'Starsan brigade', but after noticing 'bits' on the inside of bottles before bottling, and some fungus/yeast in the recesses of a tap of my bottling / oxygenating vessel (no idea how I got away with that...must have been there for some time..maybe that's where the few gushers came from) I now use VWP the day before brewing / bottling and starsan as the secondary line of defence on brew day/ bottling day. (Sodium percarbonate when cleaning out the stainless conical). I'm still a massive fan of starsan but as part of a multi level sanitation strategy.

 

[MyQul]

I'm one of the 'Starsan brigade', but after noticing 'bits' on the inside of bottles before bottling, and some fungus/yeast in the recesses of a tap of my bottling / oxygenating vessel (no idea how I got away with that...must have been there for some time..maybe that's where the few gushers came from) I now use VWP the day before brewing / bottling and starsan as the secondary line of defence on brew day/ bottling day. (Sodium percarbonate when cleaning out the stainless conical). I'm still a massive fan of starsan but as part of a multi level sanitation strategy.

where do you get sodium percarbonate? If I get a brew bucket I'll probably need something good to clean it with other than washing up liquid

 

[Spoon]

As I said above my problem was exposing the beer to nasties too many times

Possible, but unless it was sat there fore day/weeks after the krausen subsided, and you were dipping unsanitised equipment into it then it's no worse than open fermentation.

 

[Wardy]

What I use a bit OCD because I clean and sanitise after a brew and then again before the brew on brew day. Warm water and soft brushes/cloth with PBW then warm rinse followed by cold rinse then star San solution to soak and rinse equipment before use.

 

[Wardy]

I also have this very potent steriliser if I think something needs a good blast.

 

[TartanSpecial]

where do you get sodium percarbonate? If I get a brew bucket I'll probably need something good to clean it with other than washing up liquid

Yeah I'd get some for your brewbucket ('if you get' :) )
From the malt miller.
http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=631

 

[nbpicklesno2]

cheapbrew wrote:

What do you rinse the bleach of with though? do you use sanitised water or what?

I use tap water. Fortunately, Severn Trent have already put chlorine (cheap bleach) in the tap water before it arrives with me. So in effect I'm rinseing my weak concentrate of bleach with an even weaker concentrate of bleach.

 

[nbpicklesno2]

Anyway, where's Manse. He loves a good discussion about bleach.

 

[brumbrew]

cheapbrew wrote:
I use tap water. Fortunately, Severn Trent have already put chlorine (cheap bleach) in the tap water before it arrives with me. So in effect I'm rinseing my weak concentrate of bleach with an even weaker concentrate of bleach.

Fellow severn Trent user ;-)

 

[nbpicklesno2]

Unfortunately, as there's little choice under our watery monopolistic system. I really want to buy Scottish Water.

 

[Hoppyland]

What do you rinse the bleach of with though? do you use sanitised water or what?

I'm a dedicated fan of bleach. As far as I'm concerned, the only downside is the thorough rinsing required. But, if you've got an infected brew, or very dirty bottles etc, then just swirl or sponge a good slug of full-strength bleach around all surfaces repeatedly. Let it sit there overnight, tightly sealed. The eponymous Alien is unlikely to survive this treatment! (Sigourney Weaver take note!). Just bear in mind that glass won't absorb chemicals, but plastics will - however my experience is that repeated rinsing, with very hot water, seems to get rid of the active ingredients even in plastic vessels. It won't clear the air, though! By which I mean that your vessel will still smell of bleach. So, when you rinse, put a tight lid on the vessel & shake very, very vigorously. Then repeat. If I remember rightly, in applied chemistry, this practice is known as "scrubbing" - it removes gases that are soluble in water.
Oh! just remembered - don't try near-boiling water in PET bottles to sterilise them. The plastic will shrink with the heat - they won't manage to turn into plasticky raisins - but they'll give it a damned good go!

 

[Wardy]

Advice above is good. I hate beech though. Back in my newbie days (roughly 1990) I used bleach as per the instructions on the bottle. It was very diluted and stunk. I left it in the FV overnight because there was staining and I was worried that this could be harbouring bugs. I couldn't shift the smell of bleach no matter how much I rinsed and scrubbed but I admit it was only a slight smell and only when I sniffed the plastic. I ended up using that FV for cleaning stuff and bought another FV for the brews but have never used bleach since.

 

[Hoppyland]

Unfortunately, as there's little choice under our watery monopolistic system. I really want to buy Scottish Water.

Can I sell you mine? Genuine Isle of Skye Water. Wonderful stuff, and I have a full chemical analysis to prove it!
OK, OK, I know you're going to push me here.....
Yep, there is a minor problem. Or two.... :-?
I guess the obvious one is the sheep & cows that trample along the hill where our water comes from. Clearly, they drink from the burn :-)
Unfortunately, I suspect that they aren't well trained, and don't stop there! (Hey, the analysis didn't seem to mention this :lol: )
Things can get a bit tricky after heavy rainfall, as well. Lots of rotten vegetation gets washed down (I don't mean that the water is peat-stained - brown is normal - but you do tend to get leaves in your tea that definitely weren't grown in India!)
Hey, but I've got gallons and gallons of it! Ask me for a quote & we'll see if it's worth shipping south! :lol:

 

[nbpicklesno2]

Everyone to their own. Maybe all my beer smells of bleach and I've never noticed :whistle:. My hands certainly do after a brewing session.

Strangely, I quite like it.

 

[Wardy]

Can I sell you mine? Genuine Isle of Skye Water. Wonderful stuff, and I have a full chemical analysis to prove it!
OK, OK, I know you're going to push me here.....
Yep, there is a minor problem. Or two.... :-?
I guess the obvious one is the sheep & cows that trample along the hill where our water comes from. Clearly, they drink from the burn :-)
Unfortunately, I suspect that they aren't well trained, and don't stop there! (Hey, the analysis didn't seem to mention this [emoji38] )
Things can get a bit tricky after heavy rainfall, as well. Lots of rotten vegetation gets washed down (I don't mean that the water is peat-stained - brown is normal - but you do tend to get leaves in your tea that definitely weren't grown in India!)
Hey, but I've got gallons and gallons of it! Ask me for a quote & we'll see if it's worth shipping south! [emoji38]

Skye 😀 wife's side of the family is in Balmacara. Are you going to the real ale festival in the spring? I'm going to try get a stall there.

 

[Hoppyland]

Skye 😀 wife's side of the family is in Balmacara. Are you going to the real ale festival in the spring? I'm going to try get a stall there.

Hadn't heard about this - but it sounds excellent. More details please!!! :)

 

[Wardy]

Hadn't heard about this - but it sounds excellent. More details please!!! :)

I'll find out and let you know. My brother in law was telling me about it because it's a friend of the family organising it and I said Easter was the best time for me so they are going to suggest organising it then.