Im all a quiver with excitement - BZ gen 4 delivered

[MashBag]

Neither does my BM20, and spends most of its time alone

 

[jambop]

I dispute this. The vast majority do seem to have problems with temp stability and control. But I've not actually heard from anyone with a G30/G40 that has said they do. These units come with a PID controller which is designed to eliminate over/undershoot issues (which is part of the higher cost). I've been brewing on a G30 for 3-4 years and never had an overshoot, and mash temp (measured independently at the top and middle of the mash as well as the output of the recirc pipe) is always within a degree (often less) of the target temp.

I may be wrong and someone may pipe up saying they have overshoot issues with a G30/G40 or other units with a PID and I'm happy to be corrected.

But to say all AIOs suffer from overshoot and temp stability is just wrong in my experience.

Like it or not that is a temperature over shoot. By the way I am not disagreeing and GF gear is well thought out I have an S40 and for the money it has been great value!
Getting back to over shoots or under shoots because they are related. I for my first time out with my new Bz did not use the programable PID this time just used some settings and the RAPT Bt thermo and had very good tempertaure control. I set for 66 C mash and the swings in temp were within a degree so like you I am happy I could walk away and leave it to do its thing. As to over under shoots a great many brewers do not understand that 1C is acceptable and start fretting. For the record I have an S40 super build but it is very crude when it comes to temperature control. However if you undestand what is happening you can easily over come the issues and make amazingly good beer with it just by manipulating the power switch. I bought the Bz to get a little less need to monitor thermometers and first time out things look good. I am now on a spot because being a scientist my brain is now saying I bet the PID prog can be used to get even better control... I don't know if I want to go there The S40 now has two functions either for big brew volumes or a brilliant HLT

 

[jambop]

My AIO with retrofit PID doesn't have issues. I'm happy enough to walk away from it during the mash once pump flow balanced.

I just wish I has any idea at all about electronics because if I could just wire up a Bz controllor to my Grainfather S40 I would be very happy indeed. It makes great beer but power manipulation and thermometer watching greatly reduce the brew day experience.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Like it or not that is a temperature over shoot

Technically you are correct, but I'd say "it's within tolerances and the margin of error", but at this point we're probably arguing semantics so let's leave it there.

I've been brewing today and just checked the graphs from the grainfather. Target temp was set at 66°. The max temp it got to was 66.4 and the min temp was 65.4°. so at most it was 0.6° off (and the biggest overshoot was 0.4°). This was all within the first 5 minutes. After that point, it was between 65.9° and 66.0°, so spot on the money.

I think we can all agree that the accuracy of kit with a PID is not the "overshoot/stability problems" people are talking about on this thread through

 

[jambop]

Technically you are correct, but I'd say "it's within tolerances and the margin of error", but at this point we're probably arguing semantics so let's leave it there.

I've been brewing today and just checked the graphs from the grainfather. Target temp was set at 66°. The max temp it got to was 66.4 and the min temp was 65.4°. so at most it was 0.6° off (and the biggest overshoot was 0.4°). This was all within the first 5 minutes. After that point, it was between 65.9° and 66.0°, so spot on the money.

I think we can all agree that the accuracy of kit with a PID is not the "overshoot/stability problems" people are talking about on this thread through

I agree but new to brewing users think a degree or so is a problem. I was getting 65.6 to 66.8 ish and am happy with that. I did not use the PID. I may try it but then again it worked so well first time and I had wheat in that brew not a lot but it can cause issues with wort flow. As I see it grain bill does have a bearing on the system performance.

 

[stripeyjoe]

I spent all of my last mash measuring the grain bed temp with a glass thermometer and a couple of electronic ones to see if the temp displayed on the G40 was accurate or not, it was within 0.5C of the displayed temp for the entire mash. It also kept to within 0.5C of the target temp except for the obvious times when ramping up to the next rest (which it did not overshoot). I generally leave the pump fully open when mashing and just have the recirc pipe lying on top of the mash. I give it all a stir if I remember to.

 

[foxy]

You are just coming over as being just a bit bitter IMO

Try another b-word, bewildered, that fits the bill.

It also kept to within 0.5C of the target temp except for the obvious times when ramping up to the next rest (which it did not overshoot). I generally leave the pump fully open when mashing and just have the recirc pipe lying on top of the mash. I give it all a stir if I remember to.

So does mine, full-volume mash and stir. Anyone who wants a walk-away mash is better with the Braumeister.
I like the hands-on approach. I have never let my mash overshoot, there is nothing more simple than a paddle. Walk away after 30 minutes and have a coffee. The action is all done and dusted. Ramping up to mash out is a breeze, the mash and the space beneath the grain pipe are as one.

 

[jambop]

Try another b-word, bewildered, that fits the bill.

So does mine, full-volume mash and stir. Anyone who wants a walk-away mash is better with the Braumeister.
I like the hands-on approach. I have never let my mash overshoot, there is nothing more simple than a paddle. Walk away after 30 minutes and have a coffee. The action is all done and dusted. Ramping up to mash out is a breeze, the mash and the space beneath the grain pipe are as one.

Yes excellent go to the top of the class

 

[jambop]

Right so I did another brew today a Lees best mild recipe from SUABP. I did not change the settings I used before. The mash (66C) went really quite well the temperature fluctuating between 65.7C and 66.7C so I think I have found a reasonable setting for a full 25L batch as I can live with a 1 degree variation. Next brew will be in about two weeks and for that I think I may try the PID function out to see how it copes with mashing temperature variation . The entire shooting match is very dependent on wort recirculation flow rate and this is where I think Brewzilla have screwed up. My dead space is only just a little over 2L personally I do not think that is nearly enough double that would have been a better volume. It would allow you to have a slightly higher flow rate which if you saw the wort level rising too much you could dial it back a bit 2.3L is sailing far too close to the wind. At some point I think I may experiment with sticking a spacer under the malt basket to increase the dead space a little see how it goes.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Wonder whether old robobrew or brewzilla malt pipe would fit, it's shorter and narrower I think.

 

[jambop]

Wonder whether old robobrew or brewzilla malt pipe would fit, it's shorter and narrower I think.

I have a neighbour who is a welder I will get him to knock up a support to hold the malt basket 2.5 cm higher than it is that should at another two litres to the dead space which in turn should make setting the recirculation rate just a bit higher. I may also just slacken the rollers in the grain mill to 1.6mm see how that works out. I am getting 85% mashing efficiency at 1.4mm . However at the end of the day do we homebrewers just spend to much time trying to get an isothermal mash

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Supporting ring/ collar on the top of the main kettle would work well. Then no damage to the system

 

[jambop]

Supporting ring/ collar on the top of the main kettle would work well. Then no damage to the system

Yes or maybe even a simple trivit sort cross of stainless rods the right diameter with a 2.5 cm upstand on each end of the cross the malt basket sits on . I think I am going to get one of the kettle extentions too. My brew required a preboil volume of 31L that is just a bit too close to the rim of the kettle for my liking.

 

[Twostage]

Right so I did another brew today a Lees best mild recipe from SUABP. I did not change the settings I used before. The mash (66C) went really quite well the temperature fluctuating between 65.7C and 66.7C so I think I have found a reasonable setting for a full 25L batch as I can live with a 1 degree variation. Next brew will be in about two weeks and for that I think I may try the PID function out to see how it copes with mashing temperature variation . The entire shooting match is very dependent on wort recirculation flow rate and this is where I think Brewzilla have screwed up. My dead space is only just a little over 2L personally I do not think that is nearly enough double that would have been a better volume. It would allow you to have a slightly higher flow rate which if you saw the wort level rising too much you could dial it back a bit 2.3L is sailing far too close to the wind. At some point I think I may experiment with sticking a spacer under the malt basket to increase the dead space a little see how it goes.

I know I can be guilty of this but if it is working, why do you want to modify it ?

 

[MashBag]

.... And why are you calling it "dead space"

 

[jambop]

I know I can be guilty of this but if it is working, why do you want to modify it ?

I am thinking about modifying brcause I honestly think it would improve the way the system works. At the moment there is just too little liquid under the grain basket. You must know these systems perform at their best with a high flow rate. It would be a brave man that walked away and left on of these for any length of time recirculating with only about 2.5L available to pump over the grain bed. I think raising the basket only 2.5 cm would add almost 2L. I think this would safely allow a slightly higher flow rate without fear of running dry down below. This in turn helps stablise the temperature

.... And why are you calling it "dead space"

It is termed dead space because when you calculate your mashing liquor requirement you have to figure that into the volume. An example would be for me with a 5kg grain bill at 2.7L per kilo needs 13.5 L of liquor ... Oh no it does'nt it needs 16L of liquor because there is 2.5L of dead space liquor below the grain basket that is not taking part in the mashing in process. If you do not take this into account you are mashing into 10.5L of liquor which will give you a resultant low stike water temperature and virtually no liquor over the mashed in grains when it comes to recirculation. Did you not know that? Or are you just being pedantic? It is not dead interms of the final mashing process but it is dead volume and plays no part at mashing in. I will prempt your reply not a problem with a BM

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@jambop
Well if you get the collar, fit that.
Then all you need are a couple of hooks , one each side and hooked into the lifting holes and onto the top of collar.
Then you'll have some adjustments easily done to vary the below kettle dead space.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

The only real dead space is that between kettle side and malt pipe. But if this is " drained" during recirculation deliberately or accidentally it isn't a factor. This is easy to assess with a sight glass.

 

[MashBag]

If its recirculating why is it dead?

 

[jambop]

The only real dead space is that between kettle side and malt pipe. But if this is " drained" during recirculation deliberately or accidentally it isn't a factor. This is easy to assess with a sight glass.

Well at the time you mash in the volume below the grain basket is dead space it plays no part in the mashing in or doughing in if you want to call it that. So if you calculate you strike liquor requirement at the rate of 2.3 L per kilo for a 5kg bill to get a liquor volume of 11.5 L and use that not accounting for the dead space you are effectively mashing into around 8.5 L of liquor at the wrong too low a temperature I know of no AIO that does not account for the dead or void volume to be added to the calculated volume for mashing. However you know that as well as any other AIO user.