Im all a quiver with excitement - BZ gen 4 delivered

[Twostage]

Are you pretty much doing the same/ similar recipes all the time.

I bitterly selling my old CX500C BTW.

Never had a bike that wasn't powered by me but I know it will be a wrench .

 

[Twostage]

I think Gash Slug doesn't understand enzymes. In the video, he is trying to preserve the alpha-amylase to preserve the body of the beer, but he is doing so at the expense of beta-amylase by letting the overshoot rise to 71.9C. The enzymes are in the wort which moves through the mash, so at 71.9 the beta amylase is being rapidly denatured as they recirculate over the elements.
Alpha amylase 63-70C beta-amylase 55-65C
The other part of the video shows the end of the mash (75 minutes) the temperature inside the mash with the Bluetooth probe is consistent with the probe in the base of the kettle. After 20 minutes or so the mash settles out as the starch is converted so the temperatures are consistent in almost any mash tun with a recirculating pump.
Still, the return flow valve must be kept fully open for good transfer of hot wort to keep those temperatures even.

I mostly 'killed' my betas in my last brew by doughing in too hot and had to rely on Messrs Tate & Lyle for support.

 

[foxy]

I don't do much when mashing mainly because i don't understand all the jargon (maybe a good thing), i set my mash temp at 68c mash in leave it 10 minutes give it stir top plate on and pump on about a 1/4 turn. on the 1/2 hour mark i stick a temp probe into the middle of the mash always 65c then i test the pump out flow always 63c, i consistantly hit my volumes and abv. all i can say is i have a very relaxed attitude when brewing and just let it do it's thing, i clean as i go all i have left to clean is the kettle and touch wood the beer is good

It's the same with a lot of hobbies. My other two hobbies are fishing and gardening. I know folk who go to the riverbank, put on a sinker and a worm, and hope for the best. Whereas others will go down to the riverbank and think and work to get that fish.
Both will come away satisfied. Same with brewing, some will buy a kit, throw it in do minimal work, and hope for the best. Others will source their ingredients, work and think about how to get the maximum return from those ingredients and learn how to accomplish the best methods to do that.
Einstein said, 'A day without learning something is a day wasted.
As for gardening that is harder than brewing and fishing put together, and there is usually only one chance a year to get it right.

 

[MashBag]

Einstein said, 'A day without learning something is a day wasted.
As for gardening that is harder than brewing and fishing put together, and there is usually only one chance a year to get it right.

Absolutely..

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Are you pretty much doing the same/ similar recipes all the time.

I bitterly selling my old CX500C BTW.

Could it not mash and boil?

I've worked out the acronym at the end stands for Brew The Wort, but the rest !!

 

[jambop]

OK so I said I would report back when I had done my first Brewzilla G4 brew and today was the day!
I have not brewed since last August so I was a bit at frenzy and when you add in the new system I was buzzing like some demented humming bird but I took it calmy in the end and here is what I did.
My Bz options were
Mash in I did not use the top plate but did have the heating plate fitted
PID OFF
BT thermo ON
Pump 100% controlled flow from ball valve
Heating Hysteresis 0.3C
Allowed temperature differential 1C
Element power 25% 600W eventual I played about a bit
Mash out
Temp diff 6C and power starting at max and working back to 25% again


I was brewing my own recipe TT's Landlord so the bill was
pale malt 77.3 %
pale wheat 6.5%
caramunich III 9.2%
Carafa III 0.5%
white sugar 6.5 %
I used hop cones so a hop spider was used.

My grain mill is set at 1.4 mm
Because it was the first time with the Bz I assumed 75% mashing eff mash temp was 66C for 90 mins . I found using these settings the mash over shot to 66.7 C ish and under shot to 65.7C ish so to be honest I was happy enough with that.
Now I come to a suggestion. The recirculation tube needs cut just short of the top of the mash level and it needs a wort spreader fitted so that you can easily see just where you stand with regard to the reciculation flow rate. If you can see the level is staying constant you can edge your recirc to the max easily, these systems demand the highest possible flow rate to maximise mash temp stability.
I used the top plate when sparging and with my S40 acting as a sparger and the kegland wort spreader fitted sparging was a dream.

The figures I eventually arrived at were better than I had hoped for using Brewfather so I may have a bit more alcohol than planned.

Mashing Eff 83% and Brewhouse 78% and I have to say I am really pleased with those for my first brew. With my S40 I usually get about the same mash eff but my brewhouse is always in the region of 72 - 74% because you do loose a lot more wort . I am inmpressed with the Bz to be honest it has well exceeded what I thought my first brewday would be like!

So in summary I would love to say it was a great brewday, and it was, but I am still suffering badly with my wrist which did make it less enjoyable. Next week it is Lees best mild time

edit
Just thought to say that I lost only about 300 or 400 ml of wort if that whereas with my S40 you are knocking on 2L wasted when transferring

 

[jambop]

I think Gash Slug doesn't understand enzymes. In the video, he is trying to preserve the alpha-amylase to preserve the body of the beer, but he is doing so at the expense of beta-amylase by letting the overshoot rise to 71.9C. The enzymes are in the wort which moves through the mash, so at 71.9 the beta amylase is being rapidly denatured as they recirculate over the elements.
Alpha amylase 63-70C beta-amylase 55-65C
The other part of the video shows the end of the mash (75 minutes) the temperature inside the mash with the Bluetooth probe is consistent with the probe in the base of the kettle. After 20 minutes or so the mash settles out as the starch is converted so the temperatures are consistent in almost any mash tun with a recirculating pump.
Still, the return flow valve must be kept fully open for good transfer of hot wort to keep those temperatures even.

No I think he does understand the mashing process but this was very much an experimental mash. He did over shoot but that was due to him playing with the settings to find the best . He then went on to say he would prefer a slight over shoot than an undershoot as this would give a beer with more body... perfectly true and a personal preferance. What he arrived at in the end was a setting that would allow a scenario where slight over shoots were the norm. The thing is at doughing in if the strike temp is set right the beta amylase is nearly denatured during that breif ten minutes or so. In summary he is quite correct in what he is saying but he would not accept 71.9C in normal mashing where 67C was the desired in his book a stint at 68 C would be preferential to a stint at 65-66 C .

 

[Twostage]

OK so I said I would report back when I had done my first Brewzilla G4 brew and today was the day!
I have not brewed since last August so I was a bit at frenzy and when you add in the new system I was buzzing like some demented humming bird but I took it calmy in the end and here is what I did.
My Bz options were
Mash in I did not use the top plate but did have the heating plate fitted
PID OFF
BT thermo ON
Pump 100% controlled flow from ball valve
Heating Hysteresis 0.3C
Allowed temperature differential 1C
Element power 25% 600W eventual I played about a bit
Mash out
Temp diff 6C and power starting at max and working back to 25% again


I was brewing my own recipe TT's Landlord so the bill was
pale malt 77.3 %
pale wheat 6.5%
caramunich III 9.2%
Carafa III 0.5%
white sugar 6.5 %
I used hop cones so a hop spider was used.

My grain mill is set at 1.4 mm
Because it was the first time with the Bz I assumed 75% mashing eff mash temp was 66C for 90 mins . I found using these settings the mash over shot to 66.7 C ish and under shot to 65.7C ish so to be honest I was happy enough with that.
Now I come to a suggestion. The recirculation tube needs cut just short of the top of the mash level and it needs a wort spreader fitted so that you can easily see just where you stand with regard to the reciculation flow rate. If you can see the level is staying constant you can edge your recirc to the max easily, these systems demand the highest possible flow rate to maximise mash temp stability.
I used the top plate when sparging and with my S40 acting as a sparger and the kegland wort spreader fitted sparging was a dream.

The figures I eventually arrived at were better than I had hoped for using Brewfather so I may have a bit more alcohol than planned.

Mashing Eff 83% and Brewhouse 78% and I have to say I am really pleased with those for my first brew. With my S40 I usually get about the same mash eff but my brewhouse is always in the region of 72 - 74% because you do loose a lot more wort . I am inmpressed with the Bz to be honest it has well exceeded what I thought my first brewday would be like!

So in summary I would love to say it was a great brewday, and it was, but I am still suffering badly with my wrist which did make it less enjoyable. Next week it is Lees best mild time

edit
Just thought to say that I lost only about 300 or 400 ml of wort if that whereas with my S40 you are knocking on 2L wasted when transferring

Sounds like a successful brew .

I'd increase the max differential, particularly if you are using the BT probe when you are heating the wort ready for mash/strike. At 1 degree it will switch off the heating element if the built in probe is more than 1 degree higher than the BT probe. Setting it higher will speed heating up as it allows the water below the HED to get ahead of the water in the pipe. The recommended setting from Kegland is 10 but others use 6. You can always bring it back down for the mash.

I'd also try using PID next time. If nothing else you can compare.

Having said all of that, your brewday worked great so feel free to ignore me.

I bet you are looking forward to the final product.

 

[jambop]

Sounds like a successful brew .

I'd increase the max differential, particularly if you are using the BT probe when you are heating the wort ready for mash/strike. At 1 degree it will switch off the heating element if the built in probe is more than 1 degree higher than the BT probe. Setting it higher will speed heating up as it allows the water below the HED to get ahead of the water in the pipe. The recommended setting from Kegland is 10 but others use 6. You can always bring it back down for the mash.

I'd also try using PID next time. If nothing else you can compare.

Having said all of that, your brewday worked great so feel free to ignore me.

I bet you are looking forward to the final product.

The thing about these AIO's is being consistent and with the Bz G4 35L I think I will be just that. I do not think I will make less than 25L and I would say 25L is the max volume it can make and I only make British style beers so grain bills are very similar. I never change my grain mill setting and I got a good set of figures today... next brew id penned in for next week so lets see what happens
I truly am looking forward to getting a taste of home brewed beer again. I did have a good 75 L stock in my cellar but it ran out two weeks back. Thing is it is not only me who drinks it my mates love the stuff so those 75L did not last too long I just looked at my brew diary and my last brew was on the 16th November had my wrist op on the 24th never touched a drop for two weeks so my 75L buffer lasted about 11 weeks or so.

 

[foxy]

No I think he does understand the mashing process but this was very much an experimental mash. He did over shoot but that was due to him playing with the settings to find the best . He then went on to say he would prefer a slight over shoot than an undershoot as this would give a beer with more body... perfectly true and a personal preferance. What he arrived at in the end was a setting that would allow a scenario where slight over shoots were the norm. The thing is at doughing in if the strike temp is set right the beta amylase is nearly denatured during that breif ten minutes or so. In summary he is quite correct in what he is saying but he would not accept 71.9C in normal mashing where 67C was the desired in his book a stint at 68 C would be preferential to a stint at 65-66 C .

Maybe he does understand the enzyme activity, but remember he is on the payroll. He doesn't say the overshoot is unacceptable but says he wants more body. For my setup, I set a mash temperature at say 67C. I am doing full-volume so my dough-in is forgivable as I have a 32 to 34 litres volume of water. Keep the pump running at full bore dough in about 1.5 kg stir, even out the temperature and repeat once the grist is in a regular stir will keep the temperature in the mash consistent with the probe in the bottom. 20 minutes or so everything is equal. I don't worry about over or undershoot. I do watch the probes in the mash and the probe dictating the heating elements.
There is nothing to stop anyone from doing a fermentability rest followed by an extract rest which I do in a few of my beers, this keeps both the beta and alpha-amylase in the loop

 

[jambop]

Maybe he does understand the enzyme activity, but remember he is on the payroll. He doesn't say the overshoot is unacceptable but says he wants more body. For my setup, I set a mash temperature at say 67C. I am doing full-volume so my dough-in is forgivable as I have a 32 to 34 litres volume of water. Keep the pump running at full bore dough in about 1.5 kg stir, even out the temperature and repeat once the grist is in a regular stir will keep the temperature in the mash consistent with the probe in the bottom. 20 minutes or so everything is equal. I don't worry about over or undershoot. I do watch the probes in the mash and the probe dictating the heating elements.
There is nothing to stop anyone from doing a fermentability rest followed by an extract rest which I do in a few of my beers, this keeps both the beta and alpha-amylase in the loop

Agreed but in the context of that particular video, which was by way of a how to use affair I think he is right. He starts the video explaining the stettings then goes about refining them. After he has arrived at a suitable set of parameters he, quite rightly points out that these systems will always over and under shoot to some degree and in his opinion he would rather over shoot more than under shoot as he likes his beer to have more body. This was a single temp mash which if you are a new brewer is the simplest to start out... he does an excellent job of explaining for the Brewzilla G4 at its simplest. If fermentability is yor thing yes a two step 62C and 70 C mash. But this is not about what he does or says it is about whether he "understands the enzymes" and he clearly does.
You may have a good method for your brewing but it is irrelevent in the context of Gash's video and its aims.

 

[foxy]

Gash gets paid to promote. At the start, as with any AIO, they are likely to overshoot after dough in. The remedy is to stir the mash with the flow full throttle and the temperature drops quickly and evens out. I have used a few different AIOs and have never encountered one where the elements turn off when the probe indicates a lowering in temperature! He made the excuse he would rather have a full-bodied beer when the temperature he was trying to achieve was for a medium-bodied beer!
Brewing beer with an AIO is not rocket science, why overly complicate something so simple? As I said before, he arrived at suitable parameters when the mash had settled at 75 minutes. All AIOs with the right flow do the same, nothing new there.
If all those who have bought one are making better beer all well and good, but looking at the forums there are plenty of punters who are not happy little Vegemite's.

 

[stripeyjoe]

At the start, as with any AIO, they are likely to overshoot after dough in

I’ve stopped using the strike temp calc for my G40, it usually set the temp 2C over intended mash temp, as the G40 is maintaining that temp until you move forward to the mash step then, after doughing in, it was usually still at strike temp and hadn’t dropped at all.
I now just dough in at mash temp.
As for alpha and beta, I always thought the temp range is where they are most active, the Beta is still there when the temp is raised, as it is fully denatured at 71C.
Good article on mash steps here:
https://byo.com/article/the-science...xt=A rest in the high,thick, full-bodied beer.

I thought Gash just got sent Kegland stuff for free, not that he is actually paid by them. I could see how he might get paid to do the more instructional videos rather than the review ones.

 

[foxy]

I thought Gash just got sent Kegland stuff for free, not that he is actually paid by them. I could see how he might get paid to do the more instructional videos rather than the review ones.

That's right, then he sells them on market place. Keg Land marketing isn't bad, the theory is similar to Gerry Harvey but on a different scale. Gerry Harvey spends $10 million on advertising to make $1 million. Kee gives away 10 units to sell 200 units.

 

[stripeyjoe]

That's right, then he sells them on market place. Keg Land marketing isn't bad, the theory is similar to Gerry Harvey but on a different scale. Gerry Harvey spends $10 million on advertising to make $1 million. Kee gives away 10 units to sell 200 units.

So he's not paid or employed by KegLand but he gets the review unit for free, something he says at the beginning of each review, like a lot of the other Brewtubers...

 

[jambop]

Gash gets paid to promote. At the start, as with any AIO, they are likely to overshoot after dough in. The remedy is to stir the mash with the flow full throttle and the temperature drops quickly and evens out. I have used a few different AIOs and have never encountered one where the elements turn off when the probe indicates a lowering in temperature! He made the excuse he would rather have a full-bodied beer when the temperature he was trying to achieve was for a medium-bodied beer!
Brewing beer with an AIO is not rocket science, why overly complicate something so simple? As I said before, he arrived at suitable parameters when the mash had settled at 75 minutes. All AIOs with the right flow do the same, nothing new there.
If all those who have bought one are making better beer all well and good, but looking at the forums there are plenty of punters who are not happy little Vegemite's.

Lots of what you are saying may well be true BUT that is not what my original reply to your first comment was about.

You said
"
I think Gash Slug doesn't understand enzymes. In the video, he is trying to preserve the alpha-amylase to preserve the body of the beer, but he is doing so at the expense of beta-amylase by letting the overshoot rise to 71.9C. The enzymes are in the wort which moves through the mash, so at 71.9 the beta amylase is being rapidly denatured as they recirculate over the elements.
Alpha amylase 63-70C beta-amylase 55-65C "

I said

"No I think he does understand the mashing process but this was very much an experimental mash. He did over shoot but that was due to him playing with the settings to find the best . He then went on to say he would prefer a slight over shoot than an undershoot as this would give a beer with more body... perfectly true and a personal preferance. What he arrived at in the end was a setting that would allow a scenario where slight over shoots were the norm. The thing is at doughing in if the strike temp is set right the beta amylase is nearly denatured during that breif ten minutes or so. In summary he is quite correct in what he is saying but he would not accept 71.9C in normal mashing where 67C was the desired in his book a stint at 68 C would be preferential to a stint at 65-66 C ."

What is true, and I have said it many times, AIO brewing systems no matter what the brand do have issues when it comes to mash temperature stability and control. What Gash is doing , in my opinion, is aimed at brewers that are new to this form of brewing and he is trying to help them short cut to getting a set up with their kit working well for them from the get go. They can then build on this information to further their own knowledge of their brewing method and allow them to make beer the way they want to, by for example having under shoots rather than over shoots because they prefer ligher bodied beers.

Gash has had over 32k people subscribe to his channel and regularly gets 20k people viewing his videos ... he is obviously helping many people, many of whom may be new to brewing with AIO systems or have just bought a Brewzilla and are looking for a bit of help understanding how to get the best from it. I do not subscribe to his channel but I would advise any new AIO brewer to view his videos because he has a really good grasp of how these systems work and how to get the best from them. As to getting paid... he states everything up front .

 

[jambop]

Gash gets paid to promote. At the start, as with any AIO, they are likely to overshoot after dough in. The remedy is to stir the mash with the flow full throttle and the temperature drops quickly and evens out. I have used a few different AIOs and have never encountered one where the elements turn off when the probe indicates a lowering in temperature! He made the excuse he would rather have a full-bodied beer when the temperature he was trying to achieve was for a medium-bodied beer!
Brewing beer with an AIO is not rocket science, why overly complicate something so simple? As I said before, he arrived at suitable parameters when the mash had settled at 75 minutes. All AIOs with the right flow do the same, nothing new there.
If all those who have bought one are making better beer all well and good, but looking at the forums there are plenty of punters who are not happy little Vegemite's.

You are just coming over as being just a bit bitter IMO

 

[jambop]

I’ve stopped using the strike temp calc for my G40, it usually set the temp 2C over intended mash temp, as the G40 is maintaining that temp until you move forward to the mash step then, after doughing in, it was usually still at strike temp and hadn’t dropped at all.
I now just dough in at mash temp.
As for alpha and beta, I always thought the temp range is where they are most active, the Beta is still there when the temp is raised, as it is fully denatured at 71C.
Good article on mash steps here:
https://byo.com/article/the-science-of-step-mashing/#:~:text=A rest in the high,thick, full-bodied beer.

I thought Gash just got sent Kegland stuff for free, not that he is actually paid by them. I could see how he might get paid to do the more instructional videos rather than the review ones.

Here is a bit of light reading on the subject if you really want to know what is going on in your mash tun

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ort_Composition_and_Enzyme_Temperature_Ranges

 

[Agentgonzo]

What is true, and I have said it many times, AIO brewing systems no matter what the brand do have issues when it comes to mash temperature stability and control.

I dispute this. The vast majority do seem to have problems with temp stability and control. But I've not actually heard from anyone with a G30/G40 that has said they do. These units come with a PID controller which is designed to eliminate over/undershoot issues (which is part of the higher cost). I've been brewing on a G30 for 3-4 years and never had an overshoot, and mash temp (measured independently at the top and middle of the mash as well as the output of the recirc pipe) is always within a degree (often less) of the target temp.

I may be wrong and someone may pipe up saying they have overshoot issues with a G30/G40 or other units with a PID and I'm happy to be corrected.

But to say all AIOs suffer from overshoot and temp stability is just wrong in my experience.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

My AIO with retrofit PID doesn't have issues. I'm happy enough to walk away from it during the mash once pump flow balanced.