Hydrogen Vs BEV cars.

[Larse]

There is no info on the cartridge capacity but the quote below was left in a video on the subject.

The hydrogen is not being burnt in a Hydrogen internal combustion engine its being used to charge the battery that powers the electric motor.

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem. By the time this would get to production (and that includes electric cars that can use this technology) battery technology will have moved past this perceived charging time "problem". Already silicon anodes are providing 10 minute charge times, aluminium graphene batteries have tested past the 1 amp level and other technologies are well advanced. Five years time will be a completely different landscape.

 

[Alastair70]

Am I missing something here, or couldn’t that same electricity production be used to create hydrogen?

No, you’re not missing anything. What is missing is the applications. Given the problems with hydrogen storage and transport, I’ve always assumed it will principally be a local solution. If that is the case, the fleets of hydrogen powered buses and taxis will need to come online at the same time as the local blue or green hydrogen plant and the economics of scaling up hydrogen production is going to be quite complicated.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Can i ask members to use this thread for discussing the future of Toyota hydrogen cartridges we already have a thread that covers charging BEV at home etc.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

30% of the population don't have off street parking, if Toyota hydrogen cartridges work all of us have the option to move to an EV.

 

[Larse]

30% of the population don't have off street parking, if Toyota hydrogen cartridges work all of us have the option to move to an EV.

That's a fair point. But that doesn't explain the low uptake of BEVs when 70% of the population can use them.

So imo the concentration should be on the technology that is mature and can be adopted right now, not something that has many issues (posted on this thread) and could well be decades away. It may be the answer for people like you, but there's a massive cohort that needs to change their mindset away from the ICE.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

That's a fair point. But that doesn't explain the low uptake of BEVs when 70% of the population can use them.

The amount of people planning to buy a new car in the next couple of years (ICE,EV and Hybrid) is tiny compared to all people who are happy to keep their ICE cars until they are forced to move to Hydrogen or BEV

 

[Northern_Brewer]

30% of the population don't have off street parking, if Toyota hydrogen cartridges work all of us have the option to move to an EV.

If you're prepared to go to a "garage" to fill up with hydrogen, then what's the difference between that and going to a garage to fill up a BEV with electricity?

There are already cars on sale like the Zeekr 007 in China that can add 285 miles of range in 10 minutes, and the vast sales of BEVs will only mean bigger development budgets and faster charging still.

And the much greater inefficiency of the hydrogen fuel cycle will make it much harder for it to be competitive on price, it will be the Calor Gas of car fuels.

 

[Larse]

The amount of people planning to buy a new car in the next couple of years (ICE,EV and Hybrid) is tiny compared to all people who are happy to keep their ICE cars until they are forced to move to Hydrogen or BEV

2 million cars are bought every year in the UK. In the last 4 years one quarter of the total fleet was bought. There are only 1 million BEVs in that fleet. Something has to change.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If you're prepared to go to a "garage" to fill up with hydrogen, then what's the difference between that and going to a garage to fill up a BEV with electricity?

Did you read the thread?

This is not about going to the garage to fill up its about using a cartridge to fuel the hydrogen cell meaning those that do not have a means to charge a EV at home now have the option to run an EV it also means those that have to charge for hours at home will not be able to do it instantly using a cartridge.

"These cartridges are not just for cars Toyota envisages them powering everything from your home to outdoor ventures"

There are already cars on sale like the Zeekr 007 in China that can add 285 miles of range in 10 minutes, and the vast sales of BEVs will only mean bigger development budgets and faster charging still.

But the huge majority cannot fill in 10 minutes they have to charge for a few hours.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

2 million cars are bought every year in the UK. In the last 4 years one quarter of the total fleet was bought. There are only 1 million BEVs in that fleet. Something has to change.

I was shocked when i read this -

How many electric cars are there in the UK?
As of the end of September 2024, there are over 1,250,000 fully electric cars in the UK.
This means that around 3.75% of the c.34 million cars on UK roads are fully electric
https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market

 

[Clint]

For myself the thoughts on electric cars...
Cost. I've spent 20k + on cars. So not that much of the puzzle.
Tech. Here is an issue as they're still fannying about with battery capabilities. The cost if your battery "fails". If it goes on fire...car is a write off. This ties in with the obvious...
Range/charging. I got space to charge 3 cars off road,4 if I lose a bit of grass. My preferred holiday jaunts in the past have been Devon,Cornwall, Scotland....all undesirable on a battery.
Future? It's that much up in the air about any future near term solution I'm afraid of buying a "Betamaxmotor".

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I have changed the thread title as its not going to stay on the subject of hydrogen cars.

 

[Clint]

Hmmmm. I thought a hydrogen cell would somehow be converted and power and electric motor...I've not really thought about or researched this coz I can't be bothered.
Perhaps I should have listened when the man from Johnson Mathey explained how these type of things work!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

For myself the thoughts on electric cars...

Its horses for courses Cint, i could easily live with an BEV as my commute is low and i do not do huge mileages regularly a full charge would easily last me a fortnight but i do not have off street parking so my next car will be a Hybrid

It runs a much as it can on electricity meaning you get huge MPG.

 

[Agentgonzo]

If it goes on fire...car is a write off

Isn't that the same for ICEs as well?

 

[Larse]

For myself the thoughts on electric cars...
Cost. I've spent 20k + on cars. So not that much of the puzzle.
Tech. Here is an issue as they're still fannying about with battery capabilities. The cost if your battery "fails". If it goes on fire...car is a write off. This ties in with the obvious...
Range/charging. I got space to charge 3 cars off road,4 if I lose a bit of grass. My preferred holiday jaunts in the past have been Devon,Cornwall, Scotland....all undesirable on a battery.
Future? It's that much up in the air about any future near term solution I'm afraid of buying a "Betamaxmotor".

Battery failure is (a) very rare with modern batteries and (b) guaranteed against for 8 years. Degradation is less than 3% per year, again with modern bateries. Not every EV is a 2011 Nissan Leaf. Tech isn't exactly new, LiOn and LifePo batteries are ubiquitous.

Range - I've done 680km in one day. Charging was all done in 'dead' time. When I didn't need the car. In total it was one hour. I have plans to drive to a friend in Italy. Looking forward to it, hardly undesirable.

Lol at the "betamaxmotor". Seriously? You think billions and billions of investment in public charging, BEV and battery manufacture, investment in battery technology is going to disappear like a [checks notes] piece of plastic with tape in it?

Edit: just on the fires. ICE cars are 20 times more likely to go on fire. Which really shouldn't be that hard to understand when they carry around tank fulls of highly flammable liquids.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

What’s wrong with biofuels, apart from the cost obviously

 

[Agentgonzo]

What’s wrong with biofuels, apart from the cost obviously

In order to generate the amount of fuel necessary to replace petrol/diesel, it would take over vast quantities of agricultural land we use to grow food

 

[Clint]

Thanks...like I said I've not looked into it much.
I still think for a long time it's a limited audience.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

In order to generate the amount of fuel necessary to replace petrol/diesel, it would take over vast quantities of agricultural land we use to grow food

Damn! I thought it just needed the oil from my local chip shop.