How to avoid NEIPA oxidation?

[DocAnna]

So do you think I am hurting my beer by adding AA during the mash?

All I can say is that I can't see any benefit but I can see the risks. I hope that's ok to say.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I don't think so. At worst, it'll just have no effect. But I defer enterely to @DocAnna as she understands the science way more than anyone else here I think!

Absolutely! and she makes great beer!

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

All I can say is that I can't see any benefit but I can see the risks. I hope that's ok to say.

Of course, thanks for your input.

I do feel like a bit of a loser now, not knowing the ins and outs of the science behind what I'm sharing. It works for me though, and perhaps it's a placebo, but my beer has genuinely improved since I've started doing it.

Perhaps I'm just learning more stuff

 

[Sadfield]

@Tess Tickle's Brewery Drinking orange juice whilst mashing is as close as I've got to this subject, but if you observe beneficial results, I'd be tempted to continue. Or, experiment further with and without.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Of course, thanks for your input.

I do feel like a bit of a loser now, not knowing the ins and outs of the science behind what I'm sharing. It works for me though, and perhaps it's a placebo, but my beer has genuinely improved since I've started doing it.

Perhaps I'm just learning more stuff

Or it could have an effect that people don't understand quite yet! The best science starts with "huh... That's odd"

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Could well be a coincidence but after I started using AA, my NEIPA's went from yukky brown sludge to this.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I also meant to say the flavour tailed off quite quickly though, which is why I asked further up what temperature people store theirs at.

It was just a theory but I assumed I was storing them too cold, as it's an ale and not a lager.

 

[Braumeister]

I saw a video on YouTube last week where the chap was drinking beer he made with ascorbic acid added and then he deliberately oxidised them in the bottle. They still had a lovely colour but they had an oxidised taste, one he said tasted of basically nothing, after having been very hoppy flavour and aroma. Put me off using ascorbic acid a bit.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Do you think that is happening to me then?

Mine used to do that though before I started using AA.

Edit: just watched the whole video from start to finish and he didn't mention ascorbic acid once?

 

[Agentgonzo]

I saw a video on YouTube last week where the chap was drinking beer he made with ascorbic acid added and then he deliberately oxidised them in the bottle. They still had a lovely colour but they had an oxidised taste, one he said tasted of basically nothing, after having been very hoppy flavour and aroma. Put me off using ascorbic acid a bit.

Interesting! It would have been good for him to have said where/how/how-much AA was added though.
I'm still new to the AA game, but my previous experiment/trial focused mostly on colour, assuming that the colour degradation would be a good indicator of flavour degradation.

 

[AJA]

I saw a video on YouTube last week where the chap was drinking beer he made with ascorbic acid added and then he deliberately oxidised them in the bottle. They still had a lovely colour but they had an oxidised taste, one he said tasted of basically nothing, after having been very hoppy flavour and aroma. Put me off using ascorbic acid a bit.

I don't think you can gather much from this, apart from beer oxidises.
He only showed that the AA failed to protect against oxidation - he needed a control with no AA to show protection against / susceptibility towards oxidation.
One day I might try a test of three bottles of beer off the keg, one with AA added to bottle, one with AA and SMB, and one without.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Could well be a coincidence but after I started using AA, my NEIPA's went from yukky brown sludge to this.

View attachment 81311

View attachment 81312

That looks great. I guess the question would be whether there was anything else you changed when you shifted to using AA?

Maybe you just got better at oxygen free transfers?

One thing as an aside - I'd really recommend securing your CO2 bottle to something while in use - a cable tie attached or rope attached to a cupboard handle is plenty, just so you can't accidentally knock it over. It's really easy to do, and when you do they inevitably land on the regulator, breaking that.

Back to the subject at hand...

I also meant to say the flavour tailed off quite quickly though, which is why I asked further up what temperature people store theirs at.

It was just a theory but I assumed I was storing them too cold, as it's an ale and not a lager.

When you say the flavour tailed off, how do you mean? It is best to store as cold as possible to slow oxidation of the beer, but it can also cause all the tasty hop compounds to fall to the bottom of the keg faster. If you have a keg drawing from a dip tube then this means they get sucked up first, and so at some point the beer seems to lack the hoppy punch it started off with.

I wouldn't stop storing the beer cold, the solutions for this are either to pick up and shake the keg every now and then, or use a floating dip tube so you're drawing the beer from the top. Or just drink the keg way faster - NEIPAs don't live long.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I have floating dip tubes in my kegs.

The hop flavour got less (as expected) but the bitterness seemed to go up. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but trying to figure out what.

 

[AJA]

Looks like you have the closed transfer down. With the clear fermenters it's much easier to see what is going on vs kegs.
I concur with JockyBrewer that the untethered gas bottle is a bit triggering. Health and Safety would have a field day!

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I'll take my chances

 

[Agentgonzo]

I don't think you can gather much from this, apart from beer oxidises.
He only showed that the AA failed to protect against oxidation - he needed a control with no AA to show protection against / susceptibility towards oxidation.

Yeah. All we know is "he used AA". He could have used a tiny amount, he could have put it in the boil, half-a-bottle of air could be too much for the amount of AA he added. Definitely interesting, but very inconclusive.

One day I might try a test of three bottles of beer off the keg, one with AA added to bottle, one with AA and SMB, and one without.

I did that here. The AA definitely helped stop colour change, and you could notice it in the taste of the beer (though these weren't IPAs, so less susceptible to oxidation).

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/ascorbic-acid-and-beer.82490/post-1195036

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Yeah. All we know is "he used AA". He could have used a tiny amount, he could have put it in the boil, half-a-bottle of air could be too much for the amount of AA he added. Definitely interesting, but very inconclusive.


I did that here. The AA definitely helped stop colour change, and you could notice it in the taste of the beer (though these weren't IPAs, so less susceptible to oxidation).

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/ascorbic-acid-and-beer.82490/post-1195036

Am I missing something here? The video didn't mention AA once? Perhaps I'm going deaf lol

 

[Agentgonzo]

Am I missing something here? The video didn't mention AA once? Perhaps I'm going deaf lol

I had the same thought. It's in the title. The description mentions it, but not in any detail (and leaps to wild conclusions):

Oxidation of beer is often compared to wet cardboard tast. But in my oppinion it tastes quite different, when oxygen reacts with the beer. Especially hopped beer. So I made a small experiment with some hoppy beers to see which flavours I would get. One beer was a west coast IPA and the other one a NEIPA. Both beers had ascorbic acid added to avoid oxidation which is why they didn't turn brown. They still got oxidated, though.

Also, he invented new words

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Definitely more forum members tests needed

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Am I missing something here? The video didn't mention AA once? Perhaps I'm going deaf lol

Ascorbic Acid.