Hoppy beers. Never taste fresh or fruity like commercial

[Northern_Brewer]

There was a real trend a year or two ago for no bittering hops but personally I think beers benefit from a bit. I also half-remember an argument about it helping to stabilise the beer. But as I say, trust your tastebuds.

Yep acid - ideally once you know your recipe you will know how much acid to add before the boil to hit a certain target after the boil. But if you're feeling a lack of "freshness" then a lower pH will help.

High sulphate ratios make bitterness more apparent and mineraly, more chloride makes things softer. So for old-school English bitters you wanted high sulphate, for modern hazies you want more chloride. "Hoppy" is a horribly ambiguous word which it's best to avoid, do you mean the hoppiness of a West Coast IPA (all bitterness) or the hoppiness of a NEIPA (all flavour compounds)?

Oxygen is always, always an issue, but if you feel like you're doing a good job there then I'd try the above tweaks (and dry yeast) first and see how that tastes.

 

[The Baron]

They reckon and I do not know 100% it is only what I have read that dry hopping raises the PH of the beer and also makes perceived bitterness levels higher it gets quite scientific but all I know is that there is a difference between dry hopping and not re bitterness

 

[timtoos]

Thats really interesting. I always guessed high sulphate for my high hopped beers. So I need to increase my chloride and reduce the wort pH?
When I say 'hoppy' I like west coast IPAs. Not mega bitter but lots of fruit/hoppy tastes. Im not into NEIPA, they are too juicy. I really like seesion pales like the ones I mentioned, Pogo, Neck Oil and the likes.

 

[timtoos]

Some great points. As changing my water and wort pH I should reduce my calculated IBUs.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thats really interesting. I always guessed high sulphate for my high hopped beers. So I need to increase my chloride and reduce the wort pH?
When I say 'hoppy' I like west coast IPAs. Not mega bitter but lots of fruit/hoppy tastes. Im not into NEIPA, they are too juicy. I really like seesion pales like the ones I mentioned, Pogo, Neck Oil and the likes.

Sulphate brings out bitterness. Since you're aiming for low bitterness, you want low sulphate. And whilst you may not be going full NEIPA, you're aiming for a kind of hybrid style that isn't quite West Coast, New England or old England, and a lot of the NEIPA techniques are going to be useful.

West Coast IPAs are pretty much "mega bitter" by definition, the BCJP defines them as 40-70 IBU but some can go >100 IBU. Neck Oil is 35 IBU, Pogo 20 IBU.

 

[Scottyburto]

I have seen mentioned here before that dry hopping for too long has an adverse effect on freshness and can ultimately end up being a waste of time and money. I don't know any of the science or whether it's just a perception. It's something I've noticed with my beers that I havent kegged or bottled when I was supposed to, but wouldn't say dry hop was a waste it just doesn't seem to last as long.

 

[Crappyfish]

I also wonder why the fruitiness can be missing good points about the yeast I will look further into this. I once did a NEIPA kit which did turn out fruity so it is possible to achieve the hoppy fruitiness.
I read the replies with interest there was some good points. I was under the impression that hop flavours dissappear with time when in the keg. Once did a pale ale that had a flowery taste to the point I thought it was horrid but over time it disappeared to the extent it became very palatable.

 

[Leon103]

Try dry hopping at 15c for 72 hours

 

[Simon Taylor]

Not much to add but agree with Northern re Scott Janish blog, he has a book too. He covers both WestCoast and NEIPA styles and is very detailed re all aspects of the process. Plenty to go at but identifying exactly what you want to create from the outset should make the goal more achievable. The piney, bitter, malty WestCoast style having a renaissance currently so plenty of UK examples available. Good luck.

 

[chrisb8]

Regarding yeast I recently used the 'Brexit' yeast from CML in a neipa and the result was really tropical fruity.

 

[Soton]

I use a hoprocket to add hop flavours and it works great
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/hoprocket/you can also set it up to pour your beer though fresh dried hops

 

[hoppyscotty]

I've struggled with hoppiness. Think for homebrew just need to up the hop amounts by a good 10% or so. Also O2 is the enemy..I'm convinced I've never had a hoppy beer not affected by oxygen. Just recently set up with a Fermizilla so not planning pressure transfers into mini kegs to totally eliminate exposure to oxygen so will see if that makes a difference.

 

[fgoulding]

I can never get the hoopy smell from my IPA brews but I can get the taste with lots of dry-hopping. But therein lies the rub as I'm spending a ton of money on hops.

So for my next brew, I'm going back to brewing a traditional ESB style beer (Old Thumper) until my Fermzilla and closed transfer system is all set up.

 

[oldpathwhiteclouds]

Hey Timtoos. Is that a recipe for Pale Fire from Pressure Drop? Which book did you get it from?

 

[thegrantickle]

Question: How are you cooling your wort and how long does it take to cool down to pitching temp?

The longer your wort stays hotter, the more those late addition hops will be isomorised, resulting in less fruitiness and less bitterness. So if you can't cool it down rapido, you may want to adjust your hop schedule to reflect the abilities of your system. Consider this as an experiment: brew an 'juicy' IPA with 100% base malt (MO or similar). Don't put any hops in while the flame is on at all, then dump half your hop bill in at flameout, begin chilling, and dump the other half in when the wort hits 70C. Then continue cooling, and transfer to the fermenter when it gets down to 20C.

 

[oldpathwhiteclouds]

Hey Timtoos. Is that a recipe for Pale Fire from Pressure Drop? Which book did you get it from?

CAMRA's Essential Home Brewing: a... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1852493518?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share