Hop addition times are hocus, aren't they?

[iamthefly]

I don't get it,. I've ordered a big book on hops, perhaps it will explain.

Hops contain acids for bittering and oils for aroma. There is no such thing as hop 'flavour', we just perceived aroma in the mouth that way.

The oils boil away, the acids don't.

Why do we muck about with additions at different times, as in a 90min IPA and not just 1 but addition at the beginning for bitterness and 1 big flameout/dryhop addition for aroma?

I just don't see what is gained that couldn't be recalculated and done as I'm suggesting. I've heard of one American brewery which does it this way.

What's with this?
Cheers

 

[Byron]

I think I read somewhere that the boil affects the ones that have been in longer differently. Something about the profile of the oils over time.

 

[iamthefly]

Makes a bit of sense I suppose. Your tag line is great btw

 

[BeerCat]

The longer you boil them the more bitterness you extract and less flavour. I just did a pale ale and switched the 60m addition to 15m, then 5m and flameout. Basically it tastes a lot hoppier.

 

[Byron]

Makes a bit of sense I suppose. Your tag line is great btw

Not sure how much you notice tbh. The thing I remember about what I read is that the initial hops don't really add any aroma at all and it's all about bitterness and the alpha % the ones you add later deliver more flavour and less bitterness.

 

[Covrich]

I have tried doing all flame out hops and having a mixture of late boil hops at say 15 5 and flame out..

I actually found whilst both had big hop hits the ones with tiered sequential hop additions had a much better longer lasting hop profile, in fact for a hoppy beer after 3 months it was still really good..

 

[geetee]

I have tried doing all flame out hops and having a mixture of late boil hops at say 15 5 and flame out..

I actually found whilst both had big hop hits the ones with tiered sequential hop additions had a much better longer lasting hop profile, in fact for a hoppy beer after 3 months it was still really good..

A local microbrewery has an APA that is hopped every minute and it is packed with hop flavour!

 

[JFB]

I no chill brew and basically do a smallish bittering, then make up the rest of the ibu's at a in the cube flame out and then dry hop. I'm more than happy with my results and don't see how I can do much else being a no chiller.
There's a Aussi guy on youtube who talks about a mate that just boils for sixty minutes then chucks the wort on 100g's of hops in a chill cube and turns out great beer.. I must give it a go some day..

 

[wfr42]

My default is about half the ibus from the 60m bittering and then the other half spilt over 10 5 and flame out additions (and then match those hops with the same sized dry hop...)

 

[JapanBrew]

When in doubt give a test run like a lot of us here have. Make the exact recipe but move the hops around. My setup is great because it's designed for small 7 liter brews with 7 liter glass fermenters. So when I test flameout or dry hopping, I can make 21 liters then split into 3 FV. add my hops at different stages and see the results.
Recently I've been working on mash hopping. Adding the hops in with mashing. There's a reaction to the oils that happen and there not supposed to change even in the boil. This is my first time doing this so I'll see next month what comes of it.

 

[Gerryjo]

When in doubt give a test run like a lot of us here have. Make the exact recipe but move the hops around. My setup is great because it's designed for small 7 liter brews with 7 liter glass fermenters. So when I test flameout or dry hopping, I can make 21 liters then split into 3 FV. add my hops at different stages and see the results.
Recently I've been working on mash hopping. Adding the hops in with mashing. There's a reaction to the oils that happen and there not supposed to change even in the boil. This is my first time doing this so I'll see next month what comes of it.

Hi @JapanBrew that's what I done a few months back and the aroma was fantastic but the beer didn't sit too long😋

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[JapanBrew]

I've noticed the beers that keep the taste and aroma are the ones with a 20 minute, 8 minute then a whirlpool additions. All my dry hop ones fade away. I guess the yeast is attaching to the hop particles and settling out. I think that's why Heady Topper says drink from the can. They want to stir up that hop material again.

 

[BeerisGOD]

The longer you boil them the more bitterness you extract and less flavour. I just did a pale ale and switched the 60m addition to 15m, then 5m and flameout. Basically it tastes a lot hoppier.

I've seen a recipe that does loads more additions late in the boil. Like you say mate I think this is the key to hoppier beer. Not just the dry hop

 

[BeerisGOD]

A local microbrewery has an APA that is hopped every minute and it is packed with hop flavour!

Blimey. So a quarter of a pellet each time for us then. Where's those nail scissors

 

[BeerisGOD]

When in doubt give a test run like a lot of us here have. Make the exact recipe but move the hops around. My setup is great because it's designed for small 7 liter brews with 7 liter glass fermenters. So when I test flameout or dry hopping, I can make 21 liters then split into 3 FV. add my hops at different stages and see the results.
Recently I've been working on mash hopping. Adding the hops in with mashing. There's a reaction to the oils that happen and there not supposed to change even in the boil. This is my first time doing this so I'll see next month what comes of it.

Don't forget to let us know on this thread mate. Intriguing stuff. I'd definitely give it a go for a longer lasting hop profile

 

[JapanBrew]

The brewers that are talking about mash hopping really says it makes a difference and, you'd think it would turn to bittering in the boil but the swear by it that it doesn't. They said it binds to stuff and won't separate during boil. So on Sunday did a simple 4 kg pilsner and 1 kg of pale malt. I added only 10 grams to the mash and after 75 minutes of mashing (including mash out temp rise) the wort tasted great. Truly something different.

 

[BeerisGOD]

OK sounds promising. So would you still add the same amount of hops to the boil or miss some out to cater for the amount used in the mash?

 

[Covrich]

A local microbrewery has an APA that is hopped every minute and it is packed with hop flavour!

Interesting, do they hop every minute after bittering??

It fortifies my findings, some people just wait and chuck everything in when the gas goes off but I personally do not find it is as efficient or holds the flavour aroma whatever you want to label it as long.

 

[pms67]

I no chill brew and basically do a smallish bittering, then make up the rest of the ibu's at a in the cube flame out and then dry hop. I'm more than happy with my results and don't see how I can do much else being a no chiller.
There's a Aussi guy on youtube who talks about a mate that just boils for sixty minutes then chucks the wort on 100g's of hops in a chill cube and turns out great beer.. I must give it a go some day..

That sounds like a plan, I don't chill either 👍

 

[Gerryjo]

It's definitely down to temperature at time of oil extraction as it will have a different set of properties and make up of body.
Now that's got me thinking for another experiment to step addition preboil with no additions to the boil and reduce my boil time to 30 mins.
Noted but shall have to wait as I have three batches in chill cubes from Tuesday night Wednesday morning that need to go into a fermenter and to be dry hopped.

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