Homebrew Twang??

[JapanBrew]

I disagree, sugar can play a very useful role in some beer styles, particularly Belgian beers. Ever had a Westvleteren, Rochefort, Westmalle, Orval, Chimay, St Bernardus? All excellent beers, all brewed with sugar.

Come on Steve. That's all you have to say!? Come on. You got me into looking at my water. You're the king of that. I've had twang. I've never ever put sugar, of any kind in my brew.
I've used 2 kits in my life. Twang. I've built complicated brewing systems. Twang. I've selected the best malts. Twang.
Then some humble bloke by the name of STEVE gets us to think water. I fix up the water... beer gods have come!

At least kill the chlorine. Campden tablet. Must. Throw some calcium in, getting better. Follow Steven's water thread, heaven.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I think the "twang" is just how LME (and to a lesser extent DME) based kits taste. I found all of the canned kits I did had a very obvious flavour; this flavour was still there but less obvious when I started doing partial mashes with DME, but now I've moved over to AG it's completely disappeared. No other changes in water, FV or any other variable. I think it's the process of dehydrating and rehydrating the malt extract that causes the flavour.

I use muntons dme in all my beers but haven't noticed any twang, but then i've never used tap water - treated or untreated. I~'ve also never used standard sugar although 9 our of 10 of my beers have candi sugar in them :grin:

 

[Linalmeemow]

I use muntons dme in all my beers but haven't noticed any twang, but then i've never used tap water - treated or untreated. I~'ve also never used standard sugar although 9 our of 10 of my beers have candi sugar in them :grin:

I've never used tap water either, always cheap spring water from the supermarket. As I said, with DME it was barely noticeable but was still there in the background. With any LME-based kit it was obvious, whether cheap or pricey kit.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

In my (very little) experience, I have a HBT theory. Not on what causes it, but on when it arrives?!


I’ve done four extract brews to date, all different, and three of those four have what I can only assume is the HBT! Exactly the same slightly bitter aftertaste never experienced in any shop bought or pub beers, ever.


All my brews followed the same process using ASDA spring water. Ie 2 weeks FV at 22 degrees, 2 weeks bottled 20 degrees, 2 weeks shed 8-12 degrees.


Brew 1 was a Festival Razorback IPA. Although a two can (bag) kit, this did come with 1kg brewing sugar which also had to be added

Brew 2 was a Simply Mild kit. This was made using 1kg brew enhancer

Brew 3 was a Mangrove Jacks Bourbon Barrel Ale. This was made using 600g Mangrove Jacks LME

Brew 4 was a Simply Pale Ale. This was made using 1kg brewing sugar and 500g Hopped DME.


Out of all of the above, the only brew which doesn’t have the HBT is the Bourbon Barrel. Now, its possible that it’s there but masked better by the Bourbon flavors but it is actually the only one which was made using no other sugars apart from Malt.


However, whilst I was compiling all this evidence and almost ready to blame added sugar for this odd after taste I’m getting, a strange thing occurred to me. I have taken a gravity reading of every brew just before bottling and as I’m not one to waste beer, I’ve given each of them a very good taste sampling at the same time (well, it is called a trial jar after all) and never have I experienced this twang at that point. The beer isn’t fantastic. For a start its flat and at about 20 degrees, but there’s no twang! It seems to only appear after bottling. Has anyone else found this twang only appears after it’s been bottled?

 

[kelper]

My kit brews have a slight yeasty 'twang' in the nose but no yeasty flavours. But this subsides as I get near the end of my barrel. I'm following the 2-2-2 rule but my Norfolk Nog has been drinking since 28th March so it's been in barrel now for five weeks.

 

[Ghillie]

Kit brews taste rank, that explains those. They all taste artificial because of preservatives and are usually supplied complete with naff yeast which makes things worse.

I would be confident in saying any twang from a proper AG brew is due to one or more of the following:

-poor sanitary practices
-poor control of fermentation temps
-trub in the bottle (bottle conditioned beers).

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Kit brews taste rank, that explains those

If that is the case why do so many members make and enjoy them when for years AG brewers have been saying the same?

 

[Medlar]

I have been brewing for decades, and moved to AG about 20 years ago (still using same kit!). Some of my more recent brews have been the best I have ever made, which I put down to improved modern ingredients, including hops, yeasts, and malts, as well as a bit more attention to detail including water chemistry. Occasionally I try to cheat by buying a kit, but it always tastes like a kit, and has that telltale off-flavour. I confess I do not recall ever doing any water treatment when using kits, so maybe not comparing like-for-like. Maybe I'll give it another shot, but I am not that hopeful.

 

[Drunkula]

Has anyone else found this twang only appears after it’s been bottled?

Yes. I'll be doing a kit in a few weeks and at bottling I'm going to sulphite some of them to 10ppm to see if it makes a difference.

 

[JonBrew]

Kit brews taste rank, that explains those. They all taste artificial because of preservatives and are usually supplied complete with naff yeast which makes things worse.

I would be confident in saying any twang from a proper AG brew is due to one or more of the following:

-poor sanitary practices
-poor control of fermentation temps
-trub in the bottle (bottle conditioned beers).

I agree with your first two points but not the third - trub in the package/bottle conditioning.

Many craft brewed beers you buy these days, whilst perhaps not can or bottle conditioned (i.e. re-feremented in the package to carbonate the product), are unfiltered and contain a sediment which will contain trub/yeast etc. You don't get a 'twang' from these products.

Even on a homebrew scale, sediment in the package would need to be (I imagine) in unreasonably high proportions to have an impact on flavour. Either that or the consumer is re-suspending all the sediment directly before drinking instead of pouring carefully to ensure it stays at the bottom of the bottle.

 

[GhostShip]

I'm pretty sure that any twang is nothing to do with the water. I've done kits using tap water and bottled spring water and both have had the dreaded twang. However, I had a tendency to drink the beers too young and never had them at their best. Leaving the beers to condition for 2/3 months does seem to make a difference. I'm not saying the twang disappears completely, but it definitely fades.

I had thought it could be a metallic taste from the can/s that contain the extract, but I've since done kits that use the new plastic containers and one or two of those have had HBT.

Hoppy beers are better because the hop flavour tends to mask any twang and darker beers such as stouts seem to be less susceptible as well.

I think the secret to HBT has to be in the extract. It may be because it's been on the shelf for a while and so is not very fresh, it may be because of additives put in at the factory. Someone did an experiment on here recently and found that adding hot water to the extract for mixing was better than adding boiling water as per the kit instructions, in terms of the twang.

One day, someone will crack it and solve the mystery, but in the meantime I would say leave the bottles alone for as long as you can bear as it does seem to improve things.

I would agree @Markk that the twang develops in the bottle - I've never noticed it when tasting at the time of bottling (which I usually do just to check there's nothing nasty going on).

 

[pms67]

On another post someone commented he done a comparison with adding boiling water compared to water at sparge temp to dilute the kits and it made a big difference ?
Maybe

 

[pms67]

Isn’t it like mashing at 100 degrees?
I’m sure that would give you a “twang”

 

[simon12]

Isn’t it like mashing at 100 degrees?
I’m sure that would give you a “twang”

No its more like doing the boil at 100C as the grain isn't there any more.

 

[Drunkula]

I had an all grain beer tonight and it had a very slight homebrew twang. Thing is it didn't hiss when I opened it and was really flat so I'm wondering if the cap didn't fully seal and it's slightly oxidised and that is what I'm picking up as one type of twang. I'll have to see how the rest of it tastes to see if it's batch wide or this is a clue.

 

[mathorp]

I suspect that a lot of home brew kits are stale. The only supplier I know of that pay attention to this is WilliamsWarn in NZ - they store in a fridge and suggest you do the same. (It is the liquid, not dry, extract that they worry about).

As I am an AG brewer I have no experience of UK kits. The mention of cheap kits being a problem in the early part of this conversation may be referring to the same thing.

It is the same issue with baking bread. Stale flour smells bad and makes terrible bread.

 

[Cwrw666]

It might be helpful if everyone was talking about the same thing. People seem to be applying the term `homebrew twang' to just about any off flavour imaginable.

 

[steve denholm]

leaving it 2 weeks in the bottle rather than drinking after one results in much better beer I find, normally by the time I'm finishing drinking a batch it's at its best.....
Also when I went AG i lost the homebrew twang but that could just be because my techniques improved (including not boiling with the lid on)

 

[Ghillie]

I agree with your first two points but not the third - trub in the package/bottle conditioning.

Many craft brewed beers you buy these days, whilst perhaps not can or bottle conditioned (i.e. re-feremented in the package to carbonate the product), are unfiltered and contain a sediment which will contain trub/yeast etc. You don't get a 'twang' from these products.

Even on a homebrew scale, sediment in the package would need to be (I imagine) in unreasonably high proportions to have an impact on flavour. Either that or the consumer is re-suspending all the sediment directly before drinking instead of pouring carefully to ensure it stays at the bottom of the bottle.

Excessive amounts of trub. I'm not talking about the tiny film of expired yeast from the conditioning process. I'm talking about poor racking practices into the bottle which results in a couple of fingers deep of trub and results in a horrendous aftertaste.

This poor practice is the same reason why we don't leave a typical beer on trub in primary for any real length of time. 2-6 weeks in my experience is fine; but anything more than that (i.e. a couple of months in a bottle) will result in a manky beer.

 

[Ghillie]

If that is the case why do so many members make and enjoy them when for years AG brewers have been saying the same?

Maybe all the beers I've had from kits have been poor ones. I've only ever tasted kit beers brewed by members here and also folk nearby; but I could distinguish a kit beer virtually every-time because of it's synthetic taste and dare I say it, "twang". As already mentioned, it's a preservative thing and likely the crap yeast supplied.