Homebrew twang

[Rivvo]

I wasn't aware of that, are they easy to buy a replacement for (or another sachet to add)?
And why would kit makers do that, it can't be expense as they must buy in such large quantities the extra few grams would make no difference?

 

[MattN]

Co-incidentally I was discussing this today with a home brewing friend of mine, we have recently swapped a couple of bottles of beer, mine was Brewferm tarweissbier and his was wherry, despite the obvious differences there was a very similar aftertaste, the twang. He thinks my expectations are too high whilst I was hoping that home brew would live up to my expectations of brewing commercial qualtity beer at home, mmm maybe he's right?
Anyway I was wondering if extra long bottle conditioning would remove it (brewferm beers apparently need this anyway, even the wheat?) or if using finings would get rid of the yeasty twang, but if you use finings prior to batch priming does it prevent proper carbonation in the bottle?
So many questions, sorry :?

No, finings don't seem to inhibit bottle conditioning. I do only carbonate it up to about 1.95 volumes of Co2 though. I have noticed that there is hardly any sediment in the bottle. (a fine dusting)

 

[Rivvo]

Thanks Matt (though I don't get the carbonation level you referred to, a bit of a novice I'm afraid) is there some sort of table to see how much to use and when is the best time to add them?
Do you get the 'twang' with your beers that you've used finings with?

 

[MattN]

Brewers friend is where you will find the carbonation calculator. To give you an example I add about 70gms to 18 litres of beer.

Matt

Ps re the twang see my previous post on page 1.

 

[mcc111]

There's still some discrepancy in theory here. Some people referring to it as a yeasty taste and aleman attributing it to poor quality/keeping of the wort. Given that AG seems to avoid this (and due to Aleman's significant experience) I'm tending to believe Aleman. Though, is it actually that there are many things that contribute to this odd taste in homebrew?

 

[graysalchemy]

Homebrew twang is not a yeasty taste and it is not that of green beer (which is apple like and caused by Acetaldehyde)

It is very distinct and you know when you taste it, and it is down to the quality of the kits.

 

[chrig]

The yeasty taste usually comes from drinking too early and pouring the sediment in to your glass...

I have started to notice a bit of a twang in all my kits the more I drink, One pressure barrel was wasted and went sour it was that bad.. I couldn't drink it fast enough.

I'm moving towards fewer but more expensive dry malt / two can kits next.

 

[mcc111]

Thanks graysalchemy :thumb: . Sounds like there's a fair bit of over-use of the term, then. At this stage my brews have been that poor that I haven't even uncovered the homebrew twang :lol:

 

[clibit]

It's a kit thing. Extract brews are better, but all grain is the answer, if you make the effort to make an all grain brew you will be gob smacked. I wasted many years of my life doing kits or avoiding doing kits and then one day I bought some grain...

Why keep making something over and over and keep wondering about the twang? Ditch the twang! Get a stock pot and a mesh bag, and mash some grains, and then boil your wort with some lovely hops of your choosing.

If you can't be bothered to do that, at least make extract brews with dried extract and steep some grains like Crystal/Chocolate (any grains that don't need mashing), and boil with hops - you can experiment and find which grains and hops you like best - and which yeast too. It's a doddle. A monkey could do it.

If you lived in Preston and some rich bloke in Honolulu offered you a life swap, would you hang around in Preston? (sorry Preston folk!). Whenever I go in a homebrew shop I am struck every time by the realisation that most UK homebrewers just open a can whith no clear list of ingredients, pour it into a bucket with some water and give it a stir, before sprinkling some unknown yeast on the top. Wake up folks! It took me years for this to hit me. Don't be like me and waste the best years of your life on kits! To me now the majority of pub beer is rubbish. And for £3 I can buy the ingredients for about 15 (500ml) bottles of homebrew. Grain is cheap.

 

[alanywiseman.]

I will throw in my 2 cents.

I do not think that the problem is just down to the extract in the kits. I had the twang in the kits to start with then it disappeared when doing the more expensive kits like Brewferm or Brupaks Beers of the World. Why as I do not think the extract will be produced differently? These 2 examples usually are brewed to about 10L so 5g yeast in 10L wort will be a fine pitching rate but this is not the case for a 23L wort at 1.040 (need 10g according to Mr Malty).

The next thing is temperature. Most kit brewers are getting into the hobby and now little of the most important stage in brewing which is fermentation. If brewing AG or extract You generally have a better understanding of the fermentation precess, the role yeast plays, pitching rates etc and with the added time you have taken to prepare the wort you take more care in the fermentation. While I do not disagree with Alemans point about vacuum boiling (there only option to concentrate the wort) I do think with the choice of yeast, pithcing rate, temperature etc you will get a good beer from it without the twang. This can be further reduced by dry hopping, adjuncts etc.

 

[graysalchemy]

Cheaper kits are made using malt extract bought in from third parties and also the extract may not be from one source, so a wort is not made in entirety from one mash. Better quality kits are sometimes made from a single mashing thus more time and care will have been afforded to it resulting in better quality. :thumb:

 

[IOMMick]

It's a kit thing. Extract brews are better, but all grain is the answer, if you make the effort to make an all grain brew you will be gob smacked. I wasted many years of my life doing kits or avoiding doing kits and then one day I bought some grain...

Why keep making something over and over and keep wondering about the twang? Ditch the twang! Get a stock pot and a mesh bag, and mash some grains, and then boil your wort with some lovely hops of your choosing.

If you can't be bothered to do that, at least make extract brews with dried extract and steep some grains like Crystal/Chocolate (any grains that don't need mashing), and boil with hops - you can experiment and find which grains and hops you like best - and which yeast too. It's a doddle. A monkey could do it.

If you lived in Preston and some rich bloke in Honolulu offered you a life swap, would you hang around in Preston? (sorry Preston folk!). Whenever I go in a homebrew shop I am struck every time by the realisation that most UK homebrewers just open a can whith no clear list of ingredients, pour it into a bucket with some water and give it a stir, before sprinkling some unknown yeast on the top. Wake up folks! It took me years for this to hit me. Don't be like me and waste the best years of your life on kits! To me now the majority of pub beer is rubbish. And for £3 I can buy the ingredients for about 15 (500ml) bottles of homebrew. Grain is cheap.

I think I might eventually go this way, my problem is that I live on an island which has no bags of grain sold in shops, so I'd have to order everything online, and grain is very heavy so postage costs might be prohibitive unless I order a very big shipment - then I have the problems of keeping it fresh in storage etc.

I imagine other people who live out of the way have similar issues.

 

[mcc111]

I don't think it is as simple as saying it's a life swap between preston and Hawaii. Yes, grain is cheap, but the equipment is expensive. Yes, it produces excellent beer but only if you have the time.

From preparation to cleaning up after bottling - that is a long process. I know it's a hobby, not a chore but I'm going to make sure I'm bloody good at making up kits before I'm brave enough to take on AG.

 

[graysalchemy]

I have had beers given to me by forum members which were kit sand you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.

Its all about what suits you, and some people kit brewing fits perfectly for them and gives them the beer that they want. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[clibit]

I have had beers given to me by forum members which were kit sand you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.

Its all about what suits you, and some people kit brewing fits perfectly for them and gives them the beer that they want. :thumb: :thumb:

Yes, fair enough. But I have spent very little on equipment. You can make all grain beer with minimal equipment. I already had a 15 litre pan to make extract brews (£15 Wilko's), I just bought £2 of muslin and made a bag and started mashing in it too.

A friend recently made me a cooler mash tun. I bought a cooler for £30, he converted it for me. Didn't charge anything, but would cost about a tenner for the bits. And good kits cost around £25. You save every time you make a grain brew.

The only issue is the time it takes. When my kids were little it was out of the question. But extract brewing is pretty quick, and you gain a lot of control and learn a hell of a lot. Why let a factory decide what beer you are going to make? With extract brewing you have an hour to boil it. Maybe half an hour to steep grains beforehand. Then allow to cool and pitch yeast.

But it's a free country, each to their own etc. Just trying to prompt people to have a go, it's well worth it.

 

[graysalchemy]

I agree with you Clibit I brew AG myself and built my 3 vessel kit for around £100, and I think AG has a lot to offer people, just some peoples circumstances don't allow it and the point I was making was that there are some fantastic kits out there which will make wonderful beer.

I am sampling one tonight as well a brewferm belgian I believe. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[clibit]

My AG brews are miles better than any kit I ever made. Maybe I did them wrong!

 

[graysalchemy]

I havent done a kit for 20 odd years and yes my all grain is far superior but then I used to brew them next to a radiator with idea of temp or the consequences of high temps.

 

[chrig]

all grain isn't the only answer, cost is one factor in brewing but when it comes to allgrain vrs kits the biggest difference is time. For £30 I can make a good kit, and its in the fermented in about 15 minutes.

With all grain your looking at pitching the yeast maybe 6 hours later if you get a good run at it, plus the cost of gas and your water..

So for a saving of £15ish I only need to spend a whole day at it, Hardly the saving of the century.... But the main issue for me is finding 5-6 hours when im not looking after the little kids or required to do something else.

 

[Aleman]

I went back to kits for a couple of brews (mainly to build up some yeast), but I chose the best kits (read Expensive Barons Dutch Lager, Brupaks German Pilsner) I could, and I treated then exactly the way I would have done if I had made them all grain.

The Barons kit is made from a single mashing, boiled and concentrated down to 7 or 8 litres, and apart from colour issues was excellent . . . but was 25 quid.

The Brupaks kit I made up with Dry Malt Extract and added a bit of sugar, as I know from experience that it would finish high and therefore wanted to drop the FG a little bit . . . I also added a few fresh hops, and boiled it for 30 minutes rather than follow the instructions. Apart from the colour few people could have spotted it was a kit, I would have been proud to say I had brewed it all grain it was that good. . . . and 35 quid

Cheap one can kits I avoid like the plague, anything with LME in I try and get the freshest tins with the longest BBE dates . . . If buying LME I buy from a supplier that gets it to order so it's not hanging about.

Trust me when I say that it's the quality and age of the extract that produces the vast percentage of THT. The cheaper kits are made with a minimal of extract sourced from different suppliers and blended, often with cheaper sugar syrups being added . . .then a dollop of isomerised hop extract is added and the lot is canned.

The difference between a good LME and a cheap one is incredible and obvious form the moment you open the tin. Try any of the Heart Of England range or the Design a Brew 'kits' (from Hamstead Homebrew if you can't get them locally 0121 358 6800). The extract for these is not made buy the company that makes 90% of the extract kits in the UK and is streets ahead in quality . . . If I could find Chris' supplier for that extract I'd go back to extract brewing without a shadow of a doubt, and with no worries.