Home made Candi Sugar

[jceg316]

I've used T-58 a lot and really pleased with the results. I have a pack of M27 sitting in my fridge but never used it before, thought I'd try it out. As for the yeast previously known as Abbaye, so far I've not had great results. I've used it 2 or 3 times and something has gone wrong every time, and not sure if it's the yeast or something else. I might have a pack of this in my fridge as well, if I do I want to do a really controlled brew to eliminate anything else which could be producing bad flavours. Do you know what yeast this is based on?

 

[dad_of_jon]

I did like the brews done with abbaye, but the yeast made too much mess blow of tube needed on both occasions.

 

[IainM]

I did my last two brews with T-58, and the trial jars really remind me of Saison Dupont. Cant wait for them to condition, although the first went mad and fermented at 26. Hopefully it isn't ruined because of it.

 

[BeerCat]

I did my last two brews with T-58, and the trial jars really remind me of Saison Dupont. Cant wait for them to condition, although the first went mad and fermented at 26. Hopefully it isn't ruined because of it.

Did you have a sample when you bottled it? Sure it will be ok, says up to 26c so not far out. Fingers crossed for you.
I intend to make some more this week once my replacement thermometer arrives. I have the feeling it wasn't hot enough last time hence the light shade i ended up with.
Next time i am gonna do 1.5kg sugar and once its a medium colour and gonna pour of half of it and crack that in another pan and boil the rest until its dark.
Save a bit of time in the kitchen (less chance of wandering off and burning).

 

[IainM]

Did you have a sample when you bottled it? Sure it will be ok, says up to 26c so not far out. Fingers crossed for you.
I intend to make some more this week once my replacement thermometer arrives. I have the feeling it wasn't hot enough last time hence the light shade i ended up with.
Next time i am gonna do 1.5kg sugar and once its a medium colour and gonna pour of half of it and crack that in another pan and boil the rest until its dark.
Save a bit of time in the kitchen (less chance of wandering off and burning).

The first tasted very hot and alcoholic. Not that pleasant, but neither did the second, albeit not as bad. They are both pretty big though, around 9%, so I'll let them condition a few months before passing judgement, as from what I've read online there are quite a few people who turned their nose at the trial jar the first time they used T-58, only to be pleasantly surprised after 4 months or so. Let us know how the candi turns out :thumb:

 

[Fil]

My ex-missus looks nowt like that.

Mine does,, but when the beer googles are on she is bloody lurverly:thumb:

 

[jceg316]

Update to the batch I've made. I've now made and used 2 batches of candi sugar. First time I made dark and the production went well. Recipe called for it to be added in for the last 10 mins, which is after my wort chiller is already in the kettle. A lot of it jsut melted and stuck the bottom of the kettle :S. Only realised after draining the mash tun and emptying the trub of course, had to pour boiling water on it to liquidise it so it owuld come off. Not sure how much actually ended up in the beer.

Batch 2 was supposed to be clear, and I had the sugar solution on the hob for 15 mins but it came out medium-light. Next time I'll keep it on for 10 mins to keep the colour right. I put it in the beer for the last half hour and gave it a really good stir which seemed to dissolve it completely.

In future though I'd recommend for home made candi sugar to dissolve it in either some water or drain off some wort and dissolve it in that before adding it to the boil. I'll try this next time.

 

[Dutto]

...............
In future though I'd recommend for home made candi sugar to dissolve it in either some water or drain off some wort and dissolve it in that before adding it to the boil. I'll try this next time.

If you stir water into the sugar after it has cooled down you can turn the sugar into a syrup which makes it much easier to store as well as adding it to the brew.

Here's some I made from sugar syrup back in February as a first attempt.

 

[jceg316]

If you stir water into the sugar after it has cooled down you can turn the sugar into a syrup

I don't understand, once it's cooled it solidifies.

 

[HebridesRob]

My very deep suspicion is that you can replace Belgian Candi sugar with supermarket sugar, derived from cane, beet, corn or whatever. If you want to caramelise it, you could add dark or light brown sugar. Much easier than faffing with it, for sure.

I am much in agreement with you.
I've spent hours reading up on brewing sugars, reading blogs etc. It'll take awhile but I'll post up some observations.

 

[HebridesRob]

I am much in agreement with you.
I've spent hours reading up on brewing sugars, reading blogs etc. It'll take awhile but I'll post up some observations.

Hope this is interesting...

Brewer's invert sugar
​

Ragus invert sugar


http://www.ragus.co.uk/product_category/custom-formulations/

Brewer’s Sugar No.1
This can be produced as a fully inverted (glucose-fructose mixture) syrup or seeded into a crystalline block. It’s 95% readily fermentable, with a subtle colour (25-35 EBC) and mellow flavour. It’s used in brewing lager and pale ale.
Brewer’s Sugar No.2
This can be produced as a fully inverted (glucose-fructose mixture) syrup or seeded into a crystalline block. It’s 95% readily fermentable, with an amber colour (60-70 EBC) and strong flavour. It’s used in bitter and strong ale.
Brewer’s Sugar No.3
This can be produced as a fully inverted (glucose-fructose mixture) syrup or seeded into a crystalline block. It’s is 95% readily fermentable, with a dark brown colour (120-140 EBC) and rich flavour. It’s used in mild ale, stouts and porters.

Why doesn't the company package it's products in a way that would be useful to home brewers? I'm sure there would be a market.

“Shut up about Barclay Perkins” Blog

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/refined-sugar-vs-invert-sugar.html

Offers the opinion that it (possibly) isn't because the sugar is inverted, it's because the brewing sugar products are made with raw cane sugar.

“"Invert sugar made from refined sugar lacks the lusciousness and other characteristics desirable in a brewing sugar, so that raw cane sugars are generally used. In addition to invert sugar, uninverted saccharose and water, therefore, commercial invert contains from 0.2 to 0.7% of albuminoids, from 3 to 6% of unfermentable organic matter and from i to 3.5% of mineral matter, the latter being partly derived from the raw material and partly introduced as calcium carbonate to neutralise the acid used in effecting hydrolysis. Sulphuric acid is generally employed as hydrolyst because the comparative insolubility of calcium sulphate makes it possible to eliminate most of the mineral matter introduced for the purpose of neutralisation.

Raw beet sugar could not be used for the production of brewers' invert, on account of the objectionable flavour of the secondary constituents. No such objection would attach to the use of hightly refined beet sugar, but highly refined sugars are not used for the reasons already stated. Occasionally invert sugar is made from a mixture of raw cane sugar and high- grade raw beet sugars (first runnings) and the origin of such invert sugar is not readily detected by the palate or nose. It is, however, desirable to exclude it from the brewery, and this can usually be done by limiting the permissible percentage of albuminoids, which is higher in beet than in cane products. Brewers' invert is supplied in three grades, and it is reasonable to require them to contain less than the following percentages of albuminoids: No. I, 0.3%; No. II, 0.5%; and No. Ill, 0.75%. A good No. Ill will comply with the standard here set up for No. I, so that the above limits cannot be unduly stringent."
"Allen's commerical organic analysis", 1917, pages 7-8.

The above is interesting in another way… If it's true that it isn't possible to use raw beet sugar, Belgian Candi sugar must be made from pure white sugar. Belgium is a huge producer of beet sugar so one would assume they use this for their beers.


This blogger describes a method (already covered in this thread) of inverting sugar. However, he? also suggests it's possible to create invert syrups by combining golden syrup and blackstrap molasses in differing proportions. I have no idea whether Blackstrap and black treacle are similar.


http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert


This post, on another forum, from 2011, is food for thought and I tend to agree with what he has to say.

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42824

Brewer's Invert sugar is made from raw, unrefined cane sugar; so is Muscovado sugar - it is made from the same stuff.

Tesco's Muscovado sugar is, or was at one time, 600 EBC, I have had it measured in the past; that is directly equivalent to brewers' invert No. 4. All you have to do is dilute Muscovado with ordinary household cane sugar linearly to match the colour of the brewers' invert that you are targeting. I am 75% certain that Muscovado sugar is already invert; as far as I can ascertain from the web, the acid extraction method inverts the raw sugar. Certainly, Tesco's Muscovado is seriously hygroscopic, which leads me to believe that it is invert. The household sugar obviously will not be invert. You can invert the mixture it by simmering it with acid if you like.

However, the reason for brewers traditionally using invert is partly because raw sugar is cheaper than refined, but mostly because of the draconian Excise rules surrounding sugar in a brewery. Even when I was involved with fledgling breweries in the 80s - 90s, the sugar book and the 'bonded' (and locked) sugar store was the first thing that the Excise man audited. All sugar had to be traceable back to source, and the source had to be a registered brewers' sugar supplier. If white Tate and Lyle was discovered, questions would be asked and threats would be made. It is amazing how paranoid Excise were about sugar, even then, and even though they did their gravity and volume dip on almost every brew.

Anyway, the reason for the diatribe of the previous paragraph is that there really is not any good scientific reason for inverting the sugar - it is a matter of tradition and at one time a matter of cost and convenience.

This one throws a big spanner in the works for homemade Candi sugar. This person asserts you need to get Maillard reactions going in your beer so you need to chuck in a strong alkali.


http://ryanbrews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/candy-syrup-right-way-hint-weve-been.html

Caramelization and maillard reactions are the reason we get the great flavors from the dark Belgian candy syrups. Caramelization is very different than maillard reactions, caramelization is a type of pyrolysis. Essentially what is happening is we are carbonizing the sugars, this if taken too far results in the characteristic burnt sugar flavor. If controlled and done correctly caramelization will essentially results in solely color formation (if its not take too far) However, with everything Ive read out there, the way we are currently making homemade candy syrup isn't the right way.

 

[Dutto]

I don't understand, once it's cooled it solidifies.

When it's cold it solidifies but that only happens because there is insufficient water present.

If you notice in the photograph the candi sugar is at 130 degrees. I stopped at that temperature because I wanted the red coloration.

To make a syrup:

1. When the sugar is at the right colour for you (anything from light caramel to dark brown) lift the pan off the heat and wait until it stops bubbling.

2. Return the pan to the heat and stir the liquid continuously as you dribble water into the pan. (If it looks like boiling over lift the pan off the heat until it settles down.)

3a. Keep stirring and dribbling the water into the pan until you have a syrup and let the syrup cool in the pan.

3b. If it goes really thick or solidifies at room temperature you haven't added enough water. In this case just reheat the syrup to boiling point and stir in more water.

4. Sterilise a bottle and after the syrup has cooled down pour it into the bottle for storage; it should keep indefinitely. (I have had Rose Hip Syrup stored for over three years and it was still usable.)

Hope this helps. :thumb:

 

[HebridesRob]

When it's cold it solidifies but that only happens because there is insufficient water present.

If you notice in the photograph the candi sugar is at 130 degrees. I stopped at that temperature because I wanted the red coloration.

To make a syrup:

1. When the sugar is at the right colour for you (anything from light caramel to dark brown) lift the pan off the heat and wait until it stops bubbling.

2. Return the pan to the heat and stir the liquid continuously as you dribble water into the pan. (If it looks like boiling over lift the pan off the heat until it settles down.)

3a. Keep stirring and dribbling the water into the pan until you have a syrup and let the syrup cool in the pan.

3b. If it goes really thick or solidifies at room temperature you haven't added enough water. In this case just reheat the syrup to boiling point and stir in more water.

4. Sterilise a bottle and after the syrup has cooled down pour it into the bottle for storage; it should keep indefinitely. (I have had Rose Hip Syrup stored for over three years and it was still usable.)

Hope this helps. :thumb:

Have you read this through?
http://ryanbrews.blogspot.co.uk/2012...weve-been.html
Any comments?

 

[Dutto]

What I know about making Candi Sugar can be written on the back of a *** packet with a whitewash brush!

However, I did use this link ...

https://joshthebrewmaster.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/how-to-make-belgian-candi-sugar/

... to make the syrup in the photograph.

As I started with a bottle of Sirop du Cane from France I didn't make the hard stuff and then dissolve it ...

https://joshthebrewmaster.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/how-to-make-belgian-candi-syrup/

... I just stopped and added water when it reached the right temperature and colour after cooking.

The link was interesting. :thumb:

If you Google "making candi sugar" you get 145,000 results so I guess someone knows what they are doing. :thumb::thumb:

 

[jceg316]

Thanks for that @dutto. Have you used rose hip syrup in beer or is that another project? We have a ton of roses here at the moment and my wife is making all sort of rose related things.

 

[HebridesRob]

If you Google "making candi sugar" you get 145,000 results so I guess someone knows what they are doing. :thumb::thumb:

Yes, but which is the right one?

 

[dad_of_jon]

candi sugar is a regular di-saccharide (sucrose) which is converted to 2 mono saccharides (glucose & fructose) the yeast have one less step to convert them to alcohol so less stress on the yeast.

"treat your yeasties right - for beer that's out of sight" :lol:

ok, you can shoot me now!

 

[Dutto]

Yes, but which is the right one?

Using the KISS principle - the easiest one! :thumb: :thumb:

 

[Dutto]

Thanks for that @dutto. Have you used rose hip syrup in beer or is that another project? We have a ton of roses here at the moment and my wife is making all sort of rose related things.

I found a bottle of three year old rose hip syrup in the shed last August. As the shed is freezing in winter and really hot in summer I wasn't too keen on using it as an ice-cream topping; so I made a DJ of Rose Hip wine out of it.

Goodness knows what the ABV is as I wasn't so into brewing at the time. I allowed it to ferment for a couple of months before bottling it and as a result it's very dry, but still has the taste of rose hips similar to that found in rose hip syrup.

It has matured well since last October and this evening my good lady decanted a 500ml bottle and apparently, with a dash of cassis, it makes a superb dinner wine. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

[jceg316]

Sounds awesome, I might have to try a rose hip wine myself...