Home brew twang

[GhostShip]

You're all pushing me towards all grain. I want to carry on brewing but I'm not willing to put time into something where I'm unhappy with the results - it's pointless.

I'll post in the Festival Golden Stag thread once I've tried that (it's currently conditioning), but if that's got the twang then I think I'm done with kits.

Maybe some sort of league table is needed for kits, with everyone stating which kits they've had HBT with. At least that way, we might establish whether some kits are more prone to twang than others.

 

[Druncan]

My last lot of brews; 4 x 24l were with Feb 17 Muntons HLME and new stock of BRY97.
Same previous recipes. All went off like rockets. Massive Krausen and fast to the finish with very satisfying attenuation I have never had before. Now 15 days and all kegs are the Fek'n best I have brewed yet! (Yeah, Yeah, I know I'm just a beginner but they really are good:thumb:)
So to summarise,, IMHO, I have learned that; The very Freshest, HLME + Fresh Yeast + good water = Happiness,

Without the Worrying George Formby tonging session,,,,, :-?

 

[Covrich]

I think lme is more susceptible to twang than dme. AG doesn't suffer that same twang. You can **** it up but won't reproduce that twang.

My most recent beer was a small left overs. I didn't have anywhere near the grain I thought I had so I got some Holland and Barrett extract and did a partial. First partial for years. The beer doesn't have a twang but it isn't great either. I think the h&b extract is the culprit.

As for sugar I think it's reputation is by virtue of kit producers basically making 50 percent of he advised with sugar. With only 1.7kg lme it just isn't going to make great stuff

Whenever I used Dme it never left any trace I could detect.

 

[Gunge]

Maybe some sort of league table is needed for kits, with everyone stating which kits they've had HBT with. At least that way, we might establish whether some kits are more prone to twang than others.

I haven't done kits for aeons but that's a great idea - sort the wheat from the chaff and give beginners a fighting chance.

 

[Godsdog]

Maybe some sort of league table is needed for kits, with everyone stating which kits they've had HBT with. At least that way, we might establish whether some kits are more prone to twang than others.






it would need full recipes to go with the brews as well

 

[Poochops]

Well I wonder if that'll paint a true picture though, I've done two Wherrys, one was twangy the second one was fine! I can list the kits that didn't twang from memory
Coopers Stout twice
Festival New Zealand lager
6 different Brewferm kits, high percentage of sugar goes into them too
Tiny Rebel Cwtch twice
Coopers brew A IPA
Festival AIPA
Evil dog DIPA
Woodfordes Wherry the second time
I've moved on to AG now, I just pitched the yeast on my third brew and the first two are ready for bottling so I've not tasted any yet, I hope to goodness none of them got the twang that'd be a proper bawbag after my run of luck with kits :-|

 

[Cwrw666]

Lots of suggestions have been put forward for what causes homebrew twang. Most can be discounted from experience.
1. Plastic flavours from FVs etc - definitely not as in my experience, using exactly the same equipment you get twang with 1 can kits made as per instructions but not with AG.
2. Water - again, using the same water, twang with kits, no twang with AG. In any case I've had twang with kits using both chlorinated tap water and totally untreated spring water.
3. Using LME in cheap kits - not this either. You get twang if you make up the kit as per instructions but not if you brew short and use less sugar - so the LME is not the culprit.
4. And following on from this - SUGAR. If you use 1kg of table sugar in a kit you get twang. If you brew it short and only use 500g sugar you don't get twang. If you add 500g sugar to an AG brew you don't get twang either.
So I'd say it was down to using too much granulated sugar.
Having said this, twang seems more of a problem with some beer styles than others. It's pretty noticeable in bitters but not so much in stouts.

 

[terrym]

Do any of you who do all grain ever get the homebrew twang with your AG brews?
Please answer honestly :whistle:
My point being that if no-one does, then its more likely to be malt extract than anything else.
Cos that's the defining difference between kit and extract brewers with AG brewers.

So, looking through the comments made since my post, it seems to me that if you do AG you are not going to get the dreaded twang.
Next if you do a kit or an extract brew and find you have the twang and it's a one-off then its not likely to be the other things like water, sugar, cleaning etc etc unless you always do things differently, which I don't
For me that points towards malt extract as the culprit, which bears out my experience. I used a brand of cheap LME in some extract brews and they all had twang. Same recipe, different LME, no problem. And out of many recent kits I've only had the twang from one kit, a Sundew.
And I agree with Covrich that I don't think its spraymalt/DME that's a problem.
So its liquid malt extract that still gets my vote, which is what I've always thought. And that means a lottery. Sometimes you will get the twang and sometimes you won't. The only added conclusion I can reach is to avoid cheap or old kits and LME and you will reduce the risk. That said I use H&B liquid malt for brewing and its fine.

 

[chor808]

You're all pushing me towards all grain. I want to carry on brewing but I'm not willing to put time into something where I'm unhappy with the results - it's pointless.

I'll post in the Festival Golden Stag thread once I've tried that (it's currently conditioning), but if that's got the twang then I think I'm done with kits.

Maybe some sort of league table is needed for kits, with everyone stating which kits they've had HBT with. At least that way, we might establish whether some kits are more prone to twang than others.

Just do it, every kit I ever made had a twang. Switched to all grain no twang at all. It is the LME in kits simple as that. Do a simple all grain in a big pan, there are lots of threads of how to start all grain.

Once you have made one all grain you will never go back.

 

[Bernie]

One major contribution to twang is high fermentation temperatures, commonly tasted in the days of putting the bucket in the airing cupboard.
If it's the LME why not use DME?

 

[terrym]

If it's the LME why not use DME?

Most kits come with LME, so a change is not normally possible except, for example, where you may be using LME to top up a one can.

 

[Gunge]

One major contribution to twang is high fermentation temperatures, commonly tasted in the days of putting the bucket in the airing cupboard.
If it's the LME why not use DME?

Lol takes me straight back to days of yore when my mate Spanner and me would make John Bull diabetic kits with half a ton of sugar added and fermented at 35C in his mam's airing cupboard. By the Christ it was nasty but did it get us dangerously leathered in double-quick time or what? Twangtastic!

 

[terrym]

Lol takes me straight back to days of yore when my mate Spanner and me would make John Bull diabetic kits with half a ton of sugar added and fermented at 35C in his mam's airing cupboard. By the Christ it was nasty but did it get us dangerously leathered in double-quick time or what? Twangtastic!

No doubt with added infections and oxidation for good measure :thumb:

 

[Gunge]

No doubt with added infections and oxidation for good measure :thumb:

Ye ye! All added to the intoxicants already in there! I can vaguely remember going to the pub for the last uns after a session on that and wrestling with the one-armed bandit whilst it lay on its side on the floor, getting thrown out and fighting on some dudes front lawn after crashing thru the fence, climbing up the side of the hospital trying to get on the roof....ah where have all the good times gone??

 

[Tanzanite]

Ye ye! All added to the intoxicants already in there! I can vaguely remember going to the pub for the last uns after a session on that and wrestling with the one-armed bandit whilst it lay on its side on the floor, getting thrown out and fighting on some dudes front lawn after crashing thru the fence, climbing up the side of the hospital trying to get on the roof....ah where have all the good times gone??

THATS MA BOY WOOF :thumb:

 

[shepp]

I have a feeling some of it has to do with someone's personal sense of taste.

 

[Bernie]

we all assume some things which was why I posted this. Like being food safe, could the activity of the yeast cause it to leach flavours?

And do we all mean the same thing when we say home brew twang? Could it be different flavours that when described sound similar but are in fact something else?

Sugar will cause a twang, but is it the only one? So why do people use table sugar to prime, could that be the cause? I dont think so as using different sugar doesnt seem to affect it for me, its not "the" home brew twang.

Yes there re many different flavors that cause "twang".
1 High fermentation temperature

2 oxidation after fermentation

3 poor conditioning (high temperatures, light)

4 not enough conditioning time

Some twangs are characteristics of beer. Would people call the characteristics of steam beer a lager with twang?

I suspect that all grain brewers don't taste twang because the beers are overwhelmingly hopped.

 

[Covrich]

So, looking through the comments made since my post, it seems to me that if you do AG you are not going to get the dreaded twang.
Next if you do a kit or an extract brew and find you have the twang and it's a one-off then its not likely to be the other things like water, sugar, cleaning etc etc unless you always do things differently, which I don't
For me that points towards malt extract as the culprit, which bears out my experience. I used a brand of cheap LME in some extract brews and they all had twang. Same recipe, different LME, no problem. And out of many recent kits I've only had the twang from one kit, a Sundew.
And I agree with Covrich that I don't think its spraymalt/DME that's a problem.
So its liquid malt extract that still gets my vote, which is what I've always thought. And that means a lottery. Sometimes you will get the twang and sometimes you won't. The only added conclusion I can reach is to avoid cheap or old kits and LME and you will reduce the risk. That said I use H&B liquid malt for brewing and its fine.

I cant remember whether it was a youtuber or a post here saying they had tried 3 or 4 kits and they just didn't taste good no matter what they tried..

Then after a suggestion they ordered a same kit from another supplier and the results are much better..

I think generally (as long as your water is normally drinkable and fine) if you was to stick to doing extract brewing with fresh dme, you shouldn't get the twang either. A little more involved than doing a straight kit but I think @dad_of_jon he knocks them out with a 15 min boil by upping the hop additions.. problem is this is can be pretty expensive. But he does get very good results.

 

[Ale]

Another thing I'm wondering is does the method of heating to maintain fermenting temperature maybe have something to do with it. I have a brew belt and always get twang. My last brew was put in the brew fridge with the heat belt and was the worst yet. I used tap water treated with a bit of a campden tablet. It was a 2 can kit so no sugar. The longer it conditions the worse it tastes so I ended up throwing about 20 pints of the stuff.

I've just tried my first bottle of my first AG as well and it has a very slight plastic taste. It was using the same method. It is an early sample though, it had 13 days in the FV then batch primed and bottled. It only had 5 days carbonating in the bottle but I tried a 330ml bottle last night and it had this taste. Not properly carbonated yet either so hopefully once Ive properly carbonated and conditioned hopefully it will be ok.

 

[Toredan]

Yeah, to mirror everyone's experience here;

Canned kits - always had it with the exception of Cwtch. However, I know the supplier had issues keeping up with the demand of cwtch so the canned malt extract was really fresh.

All grain - never yet had it and have been doing AG for awhile. That being said, now and again I'll still do a Cwtch kit because it's seriously good beer and I've not found an AG clone recipe. Actually, not sure i'd bother with a clone for it as when compared side-by-side the kit is super close to the real deal.