Hoegaarden clone help

[andyco]

Hi folks

I attempting AG Hoe clone number 6 tomorrow."Hoe my God 6"
I've been trying to nail the perfect Hoegaarden clone for about 2 years now and if I'm honest I no closer than I was when I first started.

My Basic grain bill is
23 litres
3kg pale/lager malt
2kg flaked wheat
0-5kg oats

15-30g EKG/sazz 90mins, some times I added 15g as well at flame out.
10-20g of orange peel T-10mins
10-20g coriander seed crushed T-10mins , some times added to fv and on one occasion 15g steeped in 100ml of boiling water cooled and added to the corny.
Mash
48c for 15mins
67c for 90mins

Yeasts I've tried
WB 06, Danster Munich,wlp 400 and hoegaarden bottle cultured.
I'm going to be trying brewferm blanche for my next batch.

I'm treating my water as if I was brewing a pale ale as that's the only why I know how
Now don't get me wrong every time I brewed it up with various little tweeks it has always been a cracking pint but it's just not there yet.I found that when using wlp400 it was a little to tart/sour for my likings?
I've spent many hours trawling the net reading various threads on wits and hoe clones and 99% claim to be "in their own words" better than Hoegaarden but not an exact clone.

Am I trying too hard and is it even possible .........

Any idea's,tips and input would be greatly welcomed :thumb:

Thanks in advance

Andy

 

[Scott]

Bump as I would also like info on this please!

 

[andyco]

Made up number 6 on Saturday , went with the basic grain bill as before 50/45/5%
Hops were East Kent Goldings 25g , 15g of bitter orange peel and 25g of coriander.
Yeast was the Brewferm Blanche....took a while to get going but seems to be chugging along nicely now. :thumb:

Has anybody got any other wit recipes that gets them close to Hoegaarden that they don't mind sharing.

Andy

 

[zgoda]

My basic Blanche recipe is 1.044: 5% oats, 45% raw unmalted wheat, 50% pilsner, mash dry. ~20 IBU from Saaz, Hallertau, Goldings or other noble type hops. 15 gms coriander, 150 gms fresh orange peel (for 21 ltr batch, 5 mins from the end of boil). Belgian yeast, ideally wheat but any other will do, maybe except Ardennes which settle too fast. This gives beer similar to Blanche de Bruxelles.

 

[pittsy]

This is a very good match (dare i say better ) of Hoegaarden off our memeber Arti ,
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.30 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 44.7 %
1.40 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 2 27.2 %
0.75 kg Oats, Flaked (Briess) (2.8 EBC) Grain 3 14.6 %
0.70 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 4 13.6 %
40.00 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 15.0 IBUs
23.00 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 4.3 IBUs
20.00 g Coriander Seed (Boil 1.0 mins) Spice 7 -
20.00 g Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 1.0 mins) Spice 8 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 %
Bitterness: 19.2 IBUs Calories: 480.5 kcal/l
Est Color: 7.5 EBC
my last batch i used lager malt as that's what i had and it just ain't as good .

 

[andyco]

150 gms fresh orange peel (for 21 ltr batch, 5 mins from the end of boil).

Zgoda, Thanks for the reply and the recipe,is that supposed to be 15g rather than 150?, when you say "mash dry" is that around the 63-65 c mark, I been mashing at about 67c.

Pittsy, Thanks also for the reply and recipe, I noticed that you use wheat malt, I've tried it with and without wheat malt, torrified and flaked wheat, all have produced a nice wit.
Can I ask do you treat your water differently when brewing wits to hefes and ales ?

Thanks again

Andy

 

[zgoda]

It's 15-18 oranges peeled. 15 gms dried peel is made of ~60 gms fresh. You may sub up to 25% with grapefruit peel.

Mash dry would be 63-65c, I'm doing step mash with ~45 mins rest in 63c then 30 mins in 72c.

Some people throw 1-2 tablespoons wheat flour into boil to get more haze.

 

[pittsy]

Pittsy, Thanks also for the reply and recipe, I noticed that you use wheat malt, I've tried it with and without wheat malt, torrified and flaked wheat, all have produced a nice wit.
Can I ask do you treat your water differently when brewing wits to hefes and ales ?

Thanks again

Andy

As it happens i'm in the middle of sorting that out , i have had my crappy water report , crappy as in useless and so i've got a few different home test kits and it would seem i have similar water to munich , land of the hefe . However Hefes are brewed with hard and soft water and are great tasting so i guess it's a style that's easy going . Also my water seems to be idea for many style ( :party: ) even lager ain't too far to correct , my calcium is a little low (easily sorted) and by hc03 is a tad high for pale ales but not much . It seems the more i learn about water profile the question gets more complex , in the end doing a ph test at room temp with mash liquid seems to be the best bet aim for 5.2 ( note this is not your ph of tap water)

 

[andyco]

Cheers for the replies folks :

Andy

 

[John_Henry]

Just saw this and thought I'd pitch in a bit of info about fermenting temperatures: I've heard that the magic combined temp of the wort when pitched and the temperature fermented at is 30°C. i.e. if you pitch at 12°C ferment at 18°C, 12 + 18 = 30. An awful lot of people suggest to ferment at 20°C or even higher, believing that this will bring out the typical elements expected from the yeast, but lower temperatures are preferable, and will produce something a lot closer to a clone. I tried this myself, and kept fermenting temp down to 17°C. I personally believe this is the way to go, and is supposed to be "how it's done" traditionally. Certainly worth a try if your fermenting at 20°C+, I think you'll see a marked improvement.

 

[pittsy]

wlp400 white labs info recommends fermenting betwwen 19 and 23c , i do mine at 22c usually , and it's a cracker .

 

[zgoda]

The idea of summing pitch temp and fermentation temp to 30c is German, and used mostly for weissbiers.

My experience with Belgian witbiers is limited to some 3 brews, but I always followed manufacturer's suggestion, start low and rise to target temp within 24-36 hrs.

 

[andyco]

Well due to a infection I've had to retire "Hoe my God #6" back to the earth via a drain :shock:

Fermentation took a while to get going but once it did all seem to be going well.
On Wednesday I noticed that the krausen had dropped and it was getting near the FG(1012) but it had a white milky film on it.
I tasted it and it was ok, then on Friday I checked again and the milky film had grown as if I was getting bit of secondary ferment.
It still tasted ok, but yesterday it tasted really sour, like tongue shrinking sour .... so today I tipped it away.
It was brewed in brand new fv so I'm pretty sure it's not that.
This is the second batch I had out 4 I've brewed this year that gone sour on me ... :shock:
I brewed 23 AG batches and up until really recently all have good.
By the looks of it my shed felt is letting water in as I have white mold spores in the inside as well as large patches that are black.
I going to put a halt to brewing until I've renewed the shed roof and taken every thing out for a spring bleach up clean.

Andy

 

[pittsy]

i feel your pain , hope you can get it sorted

 

[andyco]

i feel your pain , hope you can get it sorted

Cheers bud :thumb:

Andy

 

[TheRedDarren]

I know its an old thread but here goes...
The recipe calls for flaked oats, is that oat husks to stop the mash getting stuck or is it oats as in porridge oats?
kthanksbye

 

[TheRedDarren]

Sorry, should have said this is in response to the second recipe posted (post #5)

 

[clibit]

You can use porridge oats. Pretty much any oats, I think.

 

[TheRedDarren]

Ak ok, thanks Clibit.