Highly attenuating saison yeast

[dmtaylor]

WLP400 witbier yeast produces pear and pepper like a saison yeast, but only attenuates to 75%. I don't know if that's good enough. If not, you might just want to add extra table sugar and/or do a super long mash overnight to improve the fermentability. However with respect to its flavors, it could pass for a saison I think.

 

[Scrattajack]

Could this be a job for Kveik? Use a 'normal' yeast to get the flavour profile and then after, say, four days lob a Kveik in. As long as you choose one that eats maltotriose you'd get the attenuation.

I know you said you didn't want to mix but it's an option if Lallemand doesn't come up with anything.

 

[AJA]

Could you use glucoamylase with a non diastatic saison yeast?

 

[jezbrews]

I might trial the Lallemand farmhouse and see if it's as tropical as they say. If not, i will go with that. I am basing this on an assignment recipe for my course and there's not a lot of point sticking to the recipe if I have to use convoluted methods which would ultimately result in a very different beer.

Kveik would not provide the uniquely Belgian profile of saison, and using amylase shouldn't be necessary, I can't find a non-diastatic saison yeast with the flavour profile I want in the first place.

 

[Scrattajack]

My idea was to use a yeast that would give an apple/pear flavour (e.g. WLP023, as above) and pitch the Kveik later to provide the attenuation.

 

[dmtaylor]

Safale BE-256 Abbaye isn't diastatic but attenuates well and will have the fruity profile. It is pof negative though, but could be mixed with T-58 if you want to add some peppery notes.

I get a ton of clove and leathery phenols from my current batch with BE-256. I think the common knowledge regarding BE-256 being POF- is false... in MY experience.

T-58, conversely, produces negligible phenols but ample red apple, again, in MY experience.

 

[Sadfield]

I get a ton of clove and leathery phenols from my current batch with BE-256. I think the common knowledge regarding BE-256 being POF- is false... in MY experience.

T-58, conversely, produces negligible phenols but ample red apple, again, in MY experience.

Completely the opposite here, for me. I even use BE-256 as part of my house blend for anything 'British'.

I'd be highly suprised if Fermentis would be wrong.

https://fermentis.com/en/news/fermentation/beer-brewing/the-two-belgian-beers-youll-love-to-brew/

 

[dmtaylor]

I'd be highly suprised if Fermentis would be wrong.

Pfff... I wouldn't...

S-33 is still great for Belgians...

https://fermentis.com/en/product/safale-s-33/

 

[MrRook]

Pfff... I wouldn't...

S-33 is still great for Belgians...

https://fermentis.com/en/product/safale-s-33/

Hasn't that been shown to be the old Edme British yeast? I've had good results brewing bitter and mild with it.

 

[dmtaylor]

Hasn't that been shown to be the old Edme British yeast? I've had good results brewing bitter and mild with it.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[Sadfield]

Yes. Exactly.

Exactly, what? Breweries in different countries have genetically similar yeasts. Duvel and McEwans being a classic example, but one makes an iconic Belgian beer, the other certainly never has. De Dochter van de korenaar uses an american yeast to make Belgian beer. Where did EDME source the yeast they cellotaped to their tin can?

This explains why the OP can't find a solution. Too much thinking in boxes, rather than focussing on process and working out how to use what is available to reach the desired out come.

https://beerandbrewing.com/belgian-beer-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong/
https://beerandbrewing.com/brasseri...ets, cofounder and,We asked him to elaborate.

 

[dmtaylor]

Exactly, what?

This explains why the OP can't find a solution. Too much thinking in boxes, rather than focussing on process and working out how to use what is available to reach the desired out come.

Well, I have thought about it, and have decided that I will not use or recommend a yeast that has an average attenuation of 67% to be used for Belgian ales. Unless perhaps you were to pitch a second higher attenuating yeast along with it.

 

[Sadfield]

Well, I have thought about it, and have decided that I will not use or recommend a yeast that has an average attenuation of 67% to be used for Belgian ales. Unless perhaps you were to pitch a second higher attenuating yeast along with it.

67% average attenuation in all malt worts. S-33 can't utilise maltotriose, but if you're mashing to create a highly fermentable wort and adding sugar, as a Belgian brewer would, this becomes less of issue. Which goes back to my comment about process and thinking outside the box. If you think like a Belgian brewer, then S-33 can quite easily be a Belgian yeast, it doesn't need to ferment what it doesn't encounter much of in the wort.

 

[dmtaylor]

you might just want to add extra table sugar and/or do a super long mash overnight to improve the fermentability.

 

[Sadfield]

So you can get higher attenuation from S-33 after all.

 

[MrRook]

So you can get higher attenuation from S-33 after all.

I once brewed a pale ale that went from 1.050 to 1.010 with a pack of s-33 and a pack of Muntons co-pitched.

 

[MrRook]

D

I once brewed a pale ale that went from 1.050 to 1.010 with a pack of s-33 and a pack of Muntons co-pitched.

Depends on the grainbill. I had a porter with 22% specialty malts that only dropped to 1.022 from 1.053 with S-33.

 

[samale]

@Sadfield
What is your experience with wlp540, I bought it to eventually brew an imperial stout. Maybe start with a dubbel or Belgian pale

 

[Sadfield]

It's certainly versatile. Looking at where it sits in the mixed source section of the genome map, I strongly suspect s-33 is a yeast that has been sold in large quantities to both British and Belgian brewers for years, as well as bakers and the English Diastatic Malt Extract Company to slap on their beer kit.

 

[Sadfield]

@Sadfield
What is your experience with wlp540, I bought it to eventually brew an imperial stout. Maybe start with a dubbel or Belgian pale

I've not used it, although have used WY1762 Belgian Abbey II which is said to be the same Rochefort strain. It worked really well in an Imperial Stout.