Help with Understanding and Choosing Yeast

[gmc]

Hi All,

This forum has been an unbelievably helpful source of information for me starting out at home brewing. I am currently trying to improve my understanding the choice of yeast and its impact on the finished beer. I have the following example.

I have brewed Youngs American Amber Ale twice now. Once with gv12 and once with kviek. I wanted to see the different impact of the two different yeasts. This was not entirely scientific as a comparison as I fermented the gv12 for 3 weeks and the kviek for 1 week. I was also testing out faster turn around times with kviek. It really did help to impress on me the difference between the two yeasts as the two different end products really tasted like different beers. I am not a beer judge by any means but here are my descriptions of the different brews.

GV12; Produced a visibly much clearer beer. Tasted like I would expect an amber ale to taste so I think that the generally neutral flavour profile that people often describe for this beer is probably something I would agree with.

Kviek; Quite cloudy. Tastes like citrus with an aftertaste of orange. Made this amber ale taste more like an IPA in terms of being more bitter and tasting more hoppy, even though the same quantity and type of hops was used.

I found both to be tasty beers.

I am hopping to find a yeast that doesn't add the citrusy bitterness as much as the Kviek did. I would like a high flocculation as I like a clear beer and can't cold crash. In terms of the GV12, it was close to what I am looking for but I find it has a mouth feel that feels thick and I like that less. Thats perhaps not a very good description, but it's a sensation almost like how milk feels thicker than water when you drink it. Thats possible a result of more yeast in the final glass as all my beers are bottle conditioned.

Having tried these 2 yeasts in a (slightly) controlled brew, can anyone suggest a yeast to try next? I have brewed some other Youngs American kits and used the supplied 'west coast yeast' which tasted nice, but I didn't like the lower flocculation so much.

So I am looking for a yeast with;

1. high flocculation
2. produces clear beer
3. doesn't add citrus overtones (biscuity flavour would be a bonus)
4. doesn't have a 'thick' mouth feel

All suggestions will be greatly appreciated

 

[Brianbrewed]

Hey, I would go with an American 'Chico' yeast if I were you.

Dried Safale US-05 is pretty decent.

I've also used this and it's pretty good;
https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/whc-irish-liquid-yeast-lax-american-ale-yeast-p-4859.html
Mangrove Jacks M44 is also pretty good.

 

[gmc]

Hey, I would go with an American 'Chico' yeast if I were you.

Dried Safale US-05 is pretty decent.

I've also used this and it's pretty good;
https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/whc-irish-liquid-yeast-lax-american-ale-yeast-p-4859.html
Mangrove Jacks M44 is also pretty good.

I like these suggestions. I had been avoiding us yeasts because my understanding was that they were lower flocculators (Is that a word?) The descriptions of these as high flocculators on the companies site is encouragement enough for me to give one a blast. Might get a couple of M44's in the next order.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Brianbrewed]

If you do use M44 I would buy two packs.
From what I know they have a lower cell count and can struggle with higher gravity beers.

US-05 is a good all rounder and pretty bullet-proof in my experience

 

[GotOneBrewin]

Wilko Gervin is most easily obtainable which fits that bill. CML kölsch cheapest if buying 10, I think £9 delivered

 

[Brew_DD2]

US-05 is a great American Ale yeast but doesn't flocculate great. I find BRY-97 much better in that regard.

 

[MrRook]

US-05 is a great American Ale yeast but doesn't flocculate great. I find BRY-97 much better in that regard.

BRY-97 is a really good yeast. The only complaint is that it can take a bit longer to get going than S-05.

 

[Brew_DD2]

BRY-97 is a really good yeast. The only complaint is that it can take a bit longer to get going than S-05.

Yeah I've found that too. Far less laggy than M-44 though. I quite like M-44 but it's ridiculous how long it takes to get going.

 

[ChrisM]

I used to be perfectly content with the 6g anonymous silver packet of yeast in my two can kit until I started reading the posts on this forum! Most of the time I would have been using Munton's yeast which clears well, is neutral in taste and converts about 70% of the sugars to alcohol (unless it gets "stuck" as it famously often did in the Wherry kits - see many many posts on this forum). Who knows what's in the Brupaks kits!

When I started with extract brewing I used Gervin English Ale Yeast - which I believe is also known as "GV12", "Nottingham" and "Wilko" yeast. Seems to have a similar profile to the Munton's yeast, although it can kick out some strange smells during fermenting.

I currently have my first Safale 04 doing its important work in the fermenter. I believe this is a fairly neutral yeast which ferments vigorously. I can already vouch for the latter.

I have a couple of the Mangrove Jack's yeasts which I'm going to try: Liberty bell M36 which posts on this forum suggest is a more interesting alternative to GV12 and Safale 04. And a New World Strong Ale M42. I like that MJ yeasts have all the characteristics on the packet.

Like the idea of a two-can kit taste comparison - I can see I'll be doing this with the Brupaks Fixby Gold I have in the cupboard.

 

[Clint]

Hi All,

This forum has been an unbelievably helpful source of information for me starting out at home brewing. I am currently trying to improve my understanding the choice of yeast and its impact on the finished beer. I have the following example.

I have brewed Youngs American Amber Ale twice now. Once with gv12 and once with kviek. I wanted to see the different impact of the two different yeasts. This was not entirely scientific as a comparison as I fermented the gv12 for 3 weeks and the kviek for 1 week. I was also testing out faster turn around times with kviek. It really did help to impress on me the difference between the two yeasts as the two different end products really tasted like different beers. I am not a beer judge by any means but here are my descriptions of the different brews.

GV12; Produced a visibly much clearer beer. Tasted like I would expect an amber ale to taste so I think that the generally neutral flavour profile that people often describe for this beer is probably something I would agree with.

Kviek; Quite cloudy. Tastes like citrus with an aftertaste of orange. Made this amber ale taste more like an IPA in terms of being more bitter and tasting more hoppy, even though the same quantity and type of hops was used.

I found both to be tasty beers.

I am hopping to find a yeast that doesn't add the citrusy bitterness as much as the Kviek did. I would like a high flocculation as I like a clear beer and can't cold crash. In terms of the GV12, it was close to what I am looking for but I find it has a mouth feel that feels thick and I like that less. Thats perhaps not a very good description, but it's a sensation almost like how milk feels thicker than water when you drink it. Thats possible a result of more yeast in the final glass as all my beers are bottle conditioned.

Having tried these 2 yeasts in a (slightly) controlled brew, can anyone suggest a yeast to try next? I have brewed some other Youngs American kits and used the supplied 'west coast yeast' which tasted nice, but I didn't like the lower flocculation so much.

So I am looking for a yeast with;

1. high flocculation
2. produces clear beer
3. doesn't add citrus overtones (biscuity flavour would be a bonus)
4. doesn't have a 'thick' mouth feel

All suggestions will be greatly appreciated

The Young's kits are a premium product what didn't you like about the supplied yeast?

 

[gmc]

The Young's kits are a premium product what didn't you like about the supplied yeast?

It's not that I don't like the supplied yeast, it's that I am trying to understanding its role in the finished beer by experimenting with different strains. I can have consistency with ordering the same kit more than once, but see the different results when brewed with different yeasts

 

[gmc]

I used to be perfectly content with the 6g anonymous silver packet of yeast in my two can kit until I started reading the posts on this forum! Most of the time I would have been using Munton's yeast which clears well, is neutral in taste and converts about 70% of the sugars to alcohol (unless it gets "stuck" as it famously often did in the Wherry kits - see many many posts on this forum). Who knows what's in the Brupaks kits!

When I started with extract brewing I used Gervin English Ale Yeast - which I believe is also known as "GV12", "Nottingham" and "Wilko" yeast. Seems to have a similar profile to the Munton's yeast, although it can kick out some strange smells during fermenting.

I currently have my first Safale 04 doing its important work in the fermenter. I believe this is a fairly neutral yeast which ferments vigorously. I can already vouch for the latter.

I have a couple of the Mangrove Jack's yeasts which I'm going to try: Liberty bell M36 which posts on this forum suggest is a more interesting alternative to GV12 and Safale 04. And a New World Strong Ale M42. I like that MJ yeasts have all the characteristics on the packet.

Like the idea of a two-can kit taste comparison - I can see I'll be doing this with the Brupaks Fixby Gold I have in the cupboard.

Lots of good suggestions here. I might have to get a few different yeasts together for the next few batches

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

It's not that I don't like the supplied yeast, it's that I am trying to understanding its role in the finished beer by experimenting with different strains. I can have consistency with ordering the same kit more than once, but see the different results when brewed with different yeasts

it's that I am trying to understanding its role in the finished beer by experimenting with different strains.

Brewing yeast

The relationship to other organisms

Yeasts are eukaryotic (cells containing complex structures enclosed within membranes) microorganisms (organisms too small for the individual cell to be seen with the naked eye) which form part of the kingdom Fungi.

Yeast is a single celled fungus. It is capable of growing anaerobically (i.e. in the absence of air) and breaks down sugars to release energy, producing carbon dioxide, alcohol and water.

Top & bottom fermenting yeasts

Brewing yeasts may be classed as "top-cropping" (or "top-fermenting") and "bottom-cropping" (or "bottom-fermenting"). Top-cropping yeasts are so called because they form a foam at the top of the wort during fermentation. An example of a top-cropping yeast is Saccharomyces cerevisiae, sometimes called an "ale yeast”

Bottom-cropping yeasts are typically used to produce lager-type beers, though they can also produce ale-type beers. These yeasts ferment well at low temperatures. An example of bottom-cropping yeast is Saccharomyces pastorianus, (known as S. carlsbergensis in the 1970's).

In addition to behaving differently and producing different beer types, ale and lager yeast are genetically very different. S.pastorianus is unusual in being a natural hybrid of two yeasts, S. cerevisiae and a low temperature wine yeast, S. Eubayanus.

Top- and bottom-cropping and cold- and warm-fermenting distinctions are largely generalizations used by non-brewers to communicate to the general public.

Within each type of yeast there are numerous strains, with each strain performing differently in terms of which sugars it can ferment, how effectively it settles out after fermentation, and what flavours it produces. There are numerous strains of yeast used in brewing, many having characteristics that create unique flavours during fermentation.

For this reason, many beer brands have their own specific pitching yeast. Some breweries deliberately have more than one strain in their pitching yeast in order to provide characteristics that just one of the yeasts alone would not provide.

Saccharomyces cerevisiae or Ale Yeast	Saccharomyces pastorianus or Lager Yeast
The ‘top’ yeast used for fermenting ales.	The ‘bottom’ yeast used for fermenting lagers.
It floats to the top of the vessel at the end of fermentation because the carbon dioxide bubbles stick to the yeast’s cell walls. It thrives on relatively high fermentation temperatures, for example 20°C and consequently fermentations are fast, for example 3 days.	It sinks to the base of the vessel at the end of fermentation because it has a different kind of cell wall. It likes low fermentation temperatures, for example 10 °C and fermentations are slower, for example 7 days.
Ale strains cannot grow above 37 °C.	Lager strains cannot grow above 34 °C.
The system used for cropping the yeast at the end of fermentation, that is skimming the yeast off the top of the beer, naturally selects the best yeast for repitching.	The system used for cropping the yeast at the end of fermentation, that is collecting from the base of the vessel is not selective and usually a pure culturing system is in use to maintain yeast purity.
Beer containing this yeast can be clarified by the addition of finings.	Beer containing this yeast cannot usually be clarified by finings.
It cannot ferment a sugar called ‘melibiose’.	It can ferment a sugar called ‘melibiose’.